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#87511 - 09/12/04 02:51 AM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have done the softer version, where I have my brothers throw tenis balls at me, but I didn't feel it would really help me in fighting situations.

we do continuous fight in my dojo, so I have gotten hit in the face several times. which is why I'm so interested in dodging and defense...since my defense is weak.

I was really hoping chi could help me sense peoples energy and by that I would be able to see/feel the attacks coming and gracefully dodge them [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#87512 - 09/12/04 08:43 AM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Hunter posted:
"I think alot of Chi is mind over body. It seems to manifest itself in a certain way in the body causeing a feeling inside and that is whats called Chi. Or something like that."

I disagree. It is not like that at all.
If anything, what you have described is feeling (ting jing).
Chi is not mind over body - chi is mind IN body, chi is everywhere. If anything mind IN body relates to neijia or internal skill NOT chi. Neijia works on the development of chi awareness.

"As for super reflexes! Chi wont do you any good."
How would you know? Do you train in an internal martial art?
There is a concept within the IMA call ting jing/listening skill. It requires that you be soft and relaxed in order to feel your opponents movement or intenetion.

As for your recommendation...
"Either buy a painball mask and let your friends throw rocks at you and try to dodge them. Or buy a bite guard and let them take swings are your face."

This is just silly. What makes you think that rocks react like people in fighting situations? Even taking punches to the head. After a while you may get good at dodging them, but what happens when they decide to punch you in the gut?

gadoo wrote:
"I was really hoping chi could help me sense peoples energy and by that I would be able to see/feel the attacks coming and gracefully dodge them"

Try getting into Tai Chi or some other form of internal MA where they work on push hands exercises. One of the objects of push hands is to increase the sensitivity of ones body in order to feel their center and take it or avoid it.

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#87513 - 09/12/04 07:29 PM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chi is not mind over body - chi is mind IN body, chi is everywhere. If anything mind IN body relates to neijia or internal skill NOT chi. Neijia works on the development of chi awareness.

I should point out I use the qualifier Think.

How would you know? Do you train in an internal martial art?

Yes I infact do but I dont like to talk about it because my fav. shirt has Goku throwing a Kamehameha wave on the back of it. I find it more usefull for weight lifting then reflexes. Reflexes seem to have a solid root in the subconsious. I recomend studieing body language also. Strangly enough listen to people lieing, and watch them it will help build up the subconsiousesnous (sp) ability to disurn the motives of someone else.

There is a concept within the IMA call ting jing/listening skill. It requires that you be soft and relaxed in order to feel your opponents movement or intenetion.

I agree completely you need to react without thought. Same as above, perhaps the subconsious ties closely in with Chi.


This is just silly. What makes you think that rocks react like people in fighting situations? Even taking punches to the head. After a while you may get good at dodging them, but what happens when they decide to punch you in the gut?

Same as above, build up your natural reactions to something coming at you. I think of is as step one in a process to build reflexes. As for getting hit in the gut. I duno? Dodge it or take it. Situps are good if your slow on you feet.

Im not flaming or anything, just giving my side of things. The rocks are getting hit are more of a trile by fire. They build up ones resistance to pain making them more relaxed when they do get in a fight. A fighter more relaxed is more able to sense either chi, or the subdle intracacys of someones body movement, perhaps both.

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#87514 - 09/13/04 07:28 AM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Note that it is not my intetion to 'flame' anyone here, I just like some foundation to peoples claims of knowledge.

I think that if you are giving people advice on a subject such as energy arts then you should at least let people know what it is that you do. Some of the exercises and techniques involved are potentially dangerous if practiced wrong. This is why I ask "what IMA do you study"?
When your reply is..."Yes I infact do but I dont like to talk about it because my fav. shirt has Goku throwing a Kamehameha wave on the back of it."
Who cares about a t-shirt? Who cares about DBZ? This is a cartoon. Most of the knowlegable folks here are concerned with reality, not 2 dimensional fiction.

"Reflexes seem to have a solid root in the subconsious. I recomend studying body language also. Strangely enough listen to people lying, and watch them it will help build up the subconsiousesnous (sp) ability to disurn the motives of someone else."

I agree that reflexes can be hightened using exercises. As well as reading body language. My point is that study is only one part of the whole. What about application?

"perhaps the subconsious ties closely in with Chi."

Perhaps, but if we dont know what method you are using to come to this conclusion, how will we understand better?
I think that chi is linked to the subconscious, but that is not all it is linked to. Chi is linked to everything, and chi is linked to nothing.

I still FULLY disagree with the rock throwing idea. If someone is far enough away that they are going to be throwing rocks at me, then they are far enough away for me to run. I think that there are plenty of well tested methods out there that are a lot better than throwing rocks.
Within these methods you gain vitality, sensitivity, flexiblity you name it. What do you gain from a rock?
You said it's a trial by fire kind of thing? Well, what would you call sparring?

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#87515 - 09/13/04 10:45 AM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Anonymous
Unregistered


First off let me say that i have never studied any IMA with an instructor. However, through academic study (book-lernin) i feel that i have a fair understanding of chi (internal/universal energy.) Gadoo, i would say that most of your questions have some basis, except perhaps the matrix/dbz special effects. As far as the energy ball is concerned i have had similar experiences. it is a fairly common exercise in energy manipulation and concentration. My first experience was in a drama class.

Again, i have never had the opportunity for qualified instruction, but IMO (in my opinion) tai chi and qi gong would be very effective for acquiring faster reflexes and increased sensitivity to the energy of others.

As a side note, the opportunity for study has finally come upon me. i have just begun studying aikido and shinkendo, and may be able to study tai chi soon. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#87516 - 09/13/04 12:30 PM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Fisherman, that is a flame. Read carefully and understand more. No one likes a troll. Also follow your own advice when if comes to proving your authority on the engery arts. This is a discussion forum after all. You should reread my DBZ reference it is an OBVIOUSE jest.

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#87517 - 09/13/04 01:13 PM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hunter:
Fisherman, that is a flame. Read carefully and understand more. No one likes a troll. Also follow your own advice when if comes to proving your authority on the engery arts. This is a discussion forum after all. You should reread my DBZ reference it is an OBVIOUSE jest. [/QUOTE]

I have read your posts and you are unclear.

[QUOTE]Yes I infact do but I dont like to talk about it because my fav. shirt has Goku throwing a Kamehameha wave on the back of it.[/QUOTE]

This sentence makes no sense what so ever. What does your favorite t-shirt have to do with your IMA training?

Fisherman has more than established him self here. You are new and have not. His requests for info on your training is well in his right and if he hadn't asked someone else would have. Fisherman is far form being a troll and you should be careful of flaming one of the few valued members of the forum that actually has something of value to contribute.


Everyone is welcome here provided they are not offering up advise without any knowledge of the subject at hand. If you are going to give such advise expect someone to enquire about your training.

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#87518 - 09/13/04 01:31 PM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Fair enough, I have adressed the issue of my training in another thread. Perhaps what I said was unclear. It was ment as a subdle joke. It should read "Yes I do have some training in IMA, mostly self taught. I do not like to talk about it because ect..." Im not out there trying to make bogus claims of super powers or making chi blasts and that was my way of poking fun at the people who do. Anyway lighten up befor I throw a Genki Dama at you.

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#87519 - 10/04/04 04:24 AM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Anonymous
Unregistered


I like this gadoo guy. It is refreshing to see someone asking some real fundamental questions; and I feel sorry for gadoo who has to hear all these conflicting "answers"
so early on.

No wonder there appears to be a lot of garbage floating. But one advise that must be given to gadoo is that all these take years and years to master and produce results, assuming you manage to find a good instructor right now (the real difficult part) He / she may not be able to do all those things, but he / she must at least teach substance. Do not expect to toy with IMA and be invincible after a couple "semesters" or attend some weekend seminar and come away "enlightened" and start dogding 200 mph rocks, which of course is not the serious purpose for learning IMA. It is the years of practice that matters, not the learning.

Mind over body? Mind in body? Both are right! The practice of chi kung (initially) is to establish a direct and conscious connection between the mind and the body for which the former, the unconscious / subconscious part of it, is responsible for the functioning of the internal organs of the latter. Later, much later, the mind "goes" into the body (initially) i.e to be able to consciously tap into the day-to-day workings of the body; and then at a more advance level to actually cause some desired effect in the body, i.e. mind-over-body (the case of yogis being able to slow thier heart beats to almost or at zero) My own experience is that when I circulate my chi to a specific organ, I feel a strong but comfortable / soothing sensation of warmth emanating from that organ --- especially the liver.

Whatever it is, good luck to gadoo, he reminds me very much like myself and a lot of others I imagine when I first started. One thing is for sure; it is difficult to know where this all ends; how do you talk about the mind thinking about itself?

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#87520 - 10/04/04 04:27 AM Re: another newb with chi questions...please don't flame :( not about making ki blasts
Anonymous
Unregistered


thanks for your replies everyone. I will take tai chi soon and tell you guys how it's going and stuff.

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