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#87406 - 08/19/04 09:01 AM Joint openings
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow, no takers on the candle exercise.

This is a more anatomical question for y'all....

How have you guys "opened" different joints?

I just hung a new heavy bag in the basement and i was hitting it, trying to focus on keeping a steady inhale and exhale through my nose during a round, and then it happened.

I noticed all of a sudden my hips were moving much more fluidly then before. Since i was concentrating so much on the breathing, my hips relaxed.

I attribute this to the fact i wasnt thinking any more of winding up for the punches, in fact for the first time, i wasnt concerned at all for how hard they were since i was doing this segment of my bagwork more as a breathing coordination exercise.

Does anybody else have stories of how they discovered how to "open" a joint? How can we learn to open other joints, or keep make the ones we randomly learned how to "open", work faster?

Let me know what you guys think,

~ED



[This message has been edited by MrEd (edited 08-19-2004).]

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#87407 - 08/20/04 12:30 PM Re: Joint openings
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd
How have you guys "opened" different joints?
[/QUOTE]

Mostly stretching and strengthing exersizes.

Two new ones, one for the shoulders and one for the kwa.

Kwa:

Try walking up a set up steps on your knees. Jeebus this is hard, but it has done more to open the kwa than anything else I had been doing previously. Don't ask me why I did it, because my reply would have to be "It seemed like a good idea at the time".

Shoulders/Scapluar:

Take two chairs and place them in a position so that you can just place the palms of the hands on each chair. Stretch out into a inclined push-up position and hold. Once you can hold the position comfortably try to lower and raise your self thru a range of about 3-5 inches.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd
I noticed all of a sudden my hips were moving much more fluidly then before. Since i was concentrating so much on the breathing, my hips relaxed.
I attribute this to the fact i wasnt thinking any more of winding up for the punches, in fact for the first time, i wasnt concerned at all for how hard they were since i was doing this segment of my bagwork more as a breathing coordination exercise.
[/QUOTE]

Just make sure not to break the connection between the hips/shouldes by letting the spine twist. By using the kwa and meng men with the proper transfer of force this connection will whip you through the strike. It is very important to 'get the hell out of the way' of the force. Don't try and direct it with your arms just let it go.

Scott

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#87408 - 08/20/04 12:49 PM Re: Joint openings
Anonymous
Unregistered


Scott,

Forgive my lack of understanding, but are you saying I should or shouldn't twist my spine?

i've been focusing on keeping my spine straight and turning from the dan tien /hip region, and turning my shoulders at the same time that my hips turn. When i do this, i feel a tightness in my quadriceps. I should mention i'm doing this from lunge posture.

I haven't heard of the kwa (is this your glutes?) but i had suspected lack of training in this area was hindering the full range of motion i acould acheive with my hips so i started doing hip swivels with my arms fully extended with five lb weights in them.

I guess my question is, to keep the connection do you view the plane of the torso as one, and try and move it in unison, or is there something more internal to do like wind up the spine like a spring or something?

i've been trying to hit heavy bag in lunge posture, by using the hip/torso rotation and coordinating a weight transfer from front leg to back. I dont think i quite have the mechanics down, because while this causes me to hit hard, i dont feel a force of the magnitude that i have to 'get the hell out of the way of'

Any help you could give, would be much appreciated.

MrEd

P.S. Maybe mr. master blaster left because i unveiled his trick in my candle thread?

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#87409 - 08/20/04 12:57 PM Re: Joint openings
Anonymous
Unregistered


Scott,

just had a 'moment'....

I think you are saying to make sure to rotate the spine when rotating shoulder hip mechanism, rather then keeping the spine fixed and attempting to move the hips independently?

I can experience these two movements separately, if i concentrate on keeping my spine still or concentrate on rotating it.

Not sure which one generates the most power, as i am still at work...ahh, fridays. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

option 1 seems like better range of motion means more speed, i.e. more power

option 2 seems like you get power from a wind up (spring) approach

still slightly confused,
~Ed

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#87410 - 08/20/04 01:06 PM Re: Joint openings
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd:
Scott,

Forgive my lack of understanding, but are you saying I should or shouldn't twist my spine?
[/QUOTE]

Shouldn't. If the hips and shoulders are out of alignment then you will have a power leak, no matter how much you can generate from the legs/waist.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd:
i've been focusing on keeping my spine straight and turning from the dan tien /hip region, and turning my shoulders at the same time that my hips turn. When i do this, i feel a tightness in my quadriceps. I should mention i'm doing this from lunge posture.
[/QUOTE]

There is a tension involved with the spine and the hip/shoulder connection must happen to transfer the power from the waist to the arm. Do not actively 'turn' the shoulders. What should happen is more of a load/release. I'll try to describe it (when you actually feel it you will never forget how to do it)...

Let's use brush-knee/twist as an example.

When the movement begins the load is placed on the rear leg/kwa and you should feel a coiling or winding effect from the foot through the leg and into the waist area. That 'load' should then be transferred forward and into the meng men and forward hip. As you step, this will release the load back to the other side and if you are aligned correctly you will feel 'whipped' forward.

It will be a rush and you will feel the power through the whole range of motion. Now there is more involved with the dan tien/reverse breathing thing but this should let you feel the correct 'path'.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd:
I haven't heard of the kwa (is this your glutes?) but i had suspected lack of training in this area was hindering the full range of motion i acould acheive with my hips so i started doing hip swivels with my arms fully extended with five lb weights in them.
[/QUOTE]

The kwa (usually means) the connective tissues in the fold of the hips, so yes the glutes are included but not actively.

Hip swivels are great just slow down and really feel the stretch and pull of the tissue and tendons. Listen to them, they will teach you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd:
or is there something more internal to do like wind up the spine like a spring or something?
[/QUOTE]

Yes!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd:
P.S. Maybe mr. master blaster left because i unveiled his trick in my candle thread?
[/QUOTE]

Frauds never like to be called out. You are a bad boy! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Scott

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#87411 - 08/20/04 01:32 PM Re: Joint openings
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, need to practice this ALOT more BUT

I just rotated my right hip back and stood with all of my wieght on my rear right leg and sunk down relaxed, left leg heel touching ground, no weight (load step1) I felt the weight in my right hip like the floor was pushing back on it. Then shifted the weight forward to my left leg (load step2) and consciously released tension of my rear leg, and it moved forward on its own!

I think the conscious release of the tension was the important step for me, although this could probably become more automatic over time.

While the recoil movement feels automatic, i dont feel a whole lot of power, and my performance of the recoil is awkward at best. I'm guessing that tendon/fascia training dramatically increases the force of this recoil? Right now, i'm happy i can experience it.

Thanks Scott!!!

Ed

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#87412 - 08/20/04 02:17 PM Re: Joint openings
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd
I just rotated my right hip back and stood with all of my wieght on my rear right leg and sunk down relaxed, left leg heel touching ground, no weight (load step1) I felt the weight in my right hip like the floor was pushing back on it. Then shifted the weight forward to my left leg (load step2) and consciously released tension of my rear leg, and it moved forward on its own!
[/QUOTE]

Egads, methinks you've got it! Now you need to connect the hips/waist to the torso. This is achieved transferring the 'load' from the rear hip and feel (intent) the load/force 'go' into the lower back which should facilitate the whipping action.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd
I think the conscious release of the tension was the important step for me, although this could probably become more automatic over time.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but don't let it go at the waist send it into the lower back and let it go up the spine and then 'get the hell out of the way' [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd
While the recoil movement feels automatic, i dont feel a whole lot of power, and my performance of the recoil is awkward at best.
[/QUOTE]

You are leaking in the transfer from the hips/kwa into the meng men and spine. The power seems to be 'transformed' to use an electrical term in this area. You will feel it.

[ [QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd
I'm guessing that tendon/fascia training dramatically increases the force of this recoil? Right now, i'm happy i can experience it.
[/QUOTE]

This is a very big step in your training and internal strength. Congratulations!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrEd
Thanks Scott!!!
[/QUOTE]

More than welcome.

Scott

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#87413 - 08/20/04 05:08 PM Re: Joint openings
Anonymous
Unregistered


If I may....

Just remember these connections as you work on what Scott has imparted....

Ankle to knee
Knee to hip
Hip to shoulder
Shoulder to elbow
Elbow to wrist
Wrist to fist

(of course, modify the above to what you are "striking" with and how you are expressing the power)

Remind you of a few conversations we have had in the past Scott?

With regards,

Michael

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#87414 - 08/22/04 10:51 AM Re: Joint openings
Anonymous
Unregistered


FROM (Different roads, where are you at?) THREAD

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:

This one in particular is on the outside of the hip joint where it meets with the femur. If you 'pop' your hip by rotating it you should be able to feel it. There are two ways in which I am now utilizing this (and maybe other) ligaments for structure and power.

First I move the hips forward, out and around to effectively "hook" this ligament and the apply pressure in a downward twisting motion. This feels much like drawing a bowstring. I have have had to stretch them out hooking them in San ti and pushing backwards. This allows me to slip into the connection faster and faster. Standing in San ti like this for 30 mins to 1 hr becomes easy as the frame will hold you up.
[/QUOTE]

I think I can almost feel what this is like, but it is hard to tell because I feel like I need to use too much muscular tension to 'pop' my hips. Need flexibility?
Also, the spiral connection from the hips to the feet causes my feet to slip and slide on the floor... I just can't seem to root or grip the floor enough. I definitely can't connect the hips to the shoulders yet.

What is san ti?

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#87415 - 08/22/04 08:01 PM Re: Joint openings
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Good thread

The Santi is the foundation stance of xingyi. Standing in this stance for prolonged periods of time (aka standing practice) help to unify the different part of the body and bring about proper structural alignment. Bagua has a similar stance with the exception that the body is coiled at the waist.

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