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#85496 - 02/28/04 05:17 AM Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Is anyone here familiar with the reality of Ki or Prana? For years I've been used to thinking of Ki as a manifestation of the FIRE "element of the ancients". Now a discussion has arisen in which somebody claims Ki is identifiable with the WIND humor or element. Which is it? Can somebody give me philosophical or Vedic references?

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#85497 - 02/28/04 12:38 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Energy Master Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 76
Loc: VA
No. Ki is not wind or fire. You can't convert it into anything. Ki is Ki (energy). That's it. There are some who think you can control elements like fire and wind. Wind is aerokenesis. Fire is Pyrokensis. Lifting things with your mind is telekensis. Changing your appearance is Biokensis. NOT ki. Ki flows through you. Fire, Ice wind and such don't. Oh yeah, Ice is cryokensis. I am not making this up this is what they are called. But I don't think they exist.

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#85498 - 02/28/04 12:40 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Energy Master Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 76
Loc: VA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Energy Master:
No. Ki is not wind or fire. You can't convert it into anything. Ki is Ki (energy). That's it. There are some who think you can control elements like fire and wind. Wind is aerokenesis. Fire is Pyrokensis. Lifting things with your mind is telekensis. Changing your appearance is Biokensis. NOT ki. Ki flows through you. Fire, Ice wind and such don't. Oh yeah, Ice is cryokensis. I am not making this up this is what they are called. But I don't think they exist.

[/QUOTE] I see I messed up on spelling some of those kenesises, oops.

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#85499 - 03/02/04 12:24 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally Incoherantly Posted by Gobzhad
Is anyone here familiar with the reality of Ki or Prana? For years I've been used to thinking of Ki as a manifestation of the FIRE "element of the ancients". Now a discussion has arisen in which somebody claims Ki is identifiable with the WIND humor or element. Which is it? Can somebody give me philosophical or Vedic references?[/QUOTE]


Alright, who keeps passing out the pixie sticks?!?

[This message has been edited by Kempoman (edited 03-02-2004).]

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#85500 - 03/02/04 01:22 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
kempocos Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 516
Loc: flemington,nj,usa
In a discussion of KI/CHI/QI the five elements are FIRE, METAL, WOOD, EARTH, WATER. WIND is not listed, oh wait you think that cartoon stories are real life sorry I was useing real life examples.

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#85501 - 03/02/04 06:27 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


In the Original Vedic philosophy the 5 elements are: Air (same as Wind), Earth, Water, Fire and Nothingness. If EVERYTHING is a composite of these 5 elements or "humors" Ki must be 1 or more of them. Please treat this as serious biz. If people have believed in this for 10,000 years there must be SOMETHING to it. Somebody must know something around here.

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#85502 - 03/03/04 05:26 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Yo G
Seems like you are the most knowledgeable person on this subject. As for an energy art that has supposedly been around for 10,000 years, you would figure someone would know something.
A little tip...
Remove yourself from the land of faries goblins dragons and all that crap and join us on the plane we all live on called EARTH.
BTW - I can produce the wind Ki - but only after a healthy dossage of chili.

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#85503 - 03/03/04 04:22 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Energy Master Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 76
Loc: VA
So what kind of chili DO you get? I need some.

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#85504 - 03/15/04 02:32 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Ender Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 2253
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#85505 - 03/15/04 03:11 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
For you chilli lovers, I've just posted something on the Tales and stories section.
Check it out!

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#85506 - 04/23/04 01:05 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Shakahl Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 90
Loc: Moore, Oklahoma, United Stated
If you are trying to tie Ki principals to western elemental philosophies (be it from an earth-based relogious POV) the closest element it can be tied to is "Spirit" not fire or water.

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#85507 - 06/01/04 09:58 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Energy Master:
No. Ki is not wind or fire. You can't convert it into anything. Ki is Ki (energy). That's it. There are some who think you can control elements like fire and wind. Wind is aerokenesis. Fire is Pyrokensis. Lifting things with your mind is telekensis. Changing your appearance is Biokensis. NOT ki. Ki flows through you. Fire, Ice wind and such don't. Oh yeah, Ice is cryokensis. I am not making this up this is what they are called. But I don't think they exist.

[/QUOTE]

google for these words its weird

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#85508 - 06/08/04 03:18 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Mtwoofwoof26 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 4
Telekinesis is the movement of objects by scientifically inexplicable means, as by the exercise of an occult power. Psychokinesis is the production of motion in physical objects by the exercise of psychic or mental powers.

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#85509 - 06/08/04 03:20 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Mtwoofwoof26 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 4
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mtwoofwoof26:
Telekinesis is the movement of objects by scientifically inexplicable means, as by the exercise of an occult power. Psychokinesis is the production of motion in physical objects by the exercise of psychic or mental powers.[/QUOTE]

Ki is energy. Ki can be focused to create psi balls, also known as ki balls.

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#85510 - 06/08/04 03:27 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mtwoofwoof26:
Ki is energy. Ki can be focused to create psi balls, also known as ki balls. [/QUOTE]

Stop it.

Kempoman

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#85511 - 06/08/04 03:30 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mtwoofwoof26:
Ki is energy. Ki can be focused to create psi balls, also known as ki balls. [/QUOTE]


Oh geez, not Ki balls again!?

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#85512 - 06/08/04 03:33 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mtwoofwoof26:
Telekinesis is the movement of objects by scientifically inexplicable means, as by the exercise of an occult power.[/QUOTE]

No. Telekenisis the name of the non-existant ability to move objects without physical force.

[QUOTE]Psychokinesis is the production of motion in physical objects by the exercise of psychic or mental powers.[/QUOTE]

No again. These are imagined abilities as no one has ever shown even the slightest ability to do either one.

Don't start with this C.R.A.P* again.


Thank you,
Kempoman
Moderator - Energy Arts
FightingArts.com

* Chi Related Asinine Post

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#85513 - 06/08/04 04:57 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Don't start with this C.R.A.P* again.

I second that motion.

P.S. Scott did you hear about John Harsey?

[This message has been edited by laf7773 (edited 06-08-2004).]

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#85514 - 06/09/04 12:25 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Zero_Shin Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 10
Loc: Bartlett,TN, US
Ki means spirit in japanese so mostly it cant be fire or or wind or any elements it is the energy of ones self. That is the the simlest way to put it. I also hope you dont mind if I say something about the "ki ball" as a martialartest some martial arts use thier ki to focuse out pain so mostly they can take critle blows that would knock out a person or put them in the hospitle or even kill them and also they have to go through a test were they hit certen points on the body like the neck for instance and other ones and they have to go though them all with out telling them to stop or passing out ot anything a ki ball is not something you can see with your eyes it is something you feel its like your hands are magnets and they repel each other and that is all I have to say about the ki ball.

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#85515 - 06/09/04 10:19 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally posted by laf7773:
P.S. Scott did you hear about John Harsey?

[This message has been edited by laf7773 (edited 06-08-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

Lane,

Yes I did. I am in contact with Gary and am passing the info on the rest of the yudansha. Very sad news.

Scott

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#85516 - 06/16/04 02:06 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ki or chi is Fire, Wind, Air, Earth, Metal, Ether . . .
The quality of the Ki/ Chi is what the Historical Med. Texts are refering to. The way the energy is moving it can be "blocked", "stagnant", "rushing". "heavy" . . . etc . . .

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#85517 - 06/17/04 06:29 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


whos john harsley?what happened to him?

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#85518 - 06/17/04 10:43 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by horselover67:
whos john harsley?what happened to him?[/QUOTE]


A mutual acquaintance. He had some heart trouble and had to be hospitalized.

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#85519 - 06/28/04 05:08 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok my thoughts on several topics.

1 physic energy Is suppose to be an Electro magnetic charge that your entire body has think of your mind as a conductor for that energy and bam!! Thatís the theory on phy energy.

2 the five elements are not meant to resemble real forces in nature but characteristics n people like a horoscope so chi or ki is found within all 5 elements.

Not facts just thoughts

Saber

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#85520 - 06/29/04 09:10 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[Monty Python]And now, for something completely different.[/Monty Python]


[This message has been edited by Kempoman (edited 06-29-2004).]

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#85521 - 06/29/04 12:47 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you are really interested in learning about how the "elements" apply t ma pick up The Bodhisattva Warriors by Nagaboshi Tomio (terrence Dukes). It explains that the elements are not always tangible ie fireballs, but should be thought of as a way to "label" behaviors and different types of movements. Sorry I can't be more thourough but its hard to fit 500 pages in one post

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#85522 - 06/29/04 12:56 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
[QUOTE]Originally posted by halfhangook:
If you are really interested in learning about how the "elements" apply t ma pick up The Bodhisattva Warriors by Nagaboshi Tomio (terrence Dukes). It explains that the elements are not always tangible ie fireballs, but should be thought of as a way to "label" behaviors and different types of movements. Sorry I can't be more thourough but its hard to fit 500 pages in one post[/QUOTE]


This book is pure crap.

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#85523 - 06/29/04 01:28 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I hope not it took a long time to read, but since you've read it as well why do you say that? (I m interested, not sarcastic"

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#85524 - 06/29/04 02:21 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Very little of the information in the book (especially the history) can be independatly verified. Most of it flies in the face of established accounts of martial arts history. If you are looking for something like this but much more accurate try anything by Patrick McCarthy.

Be very careful when dealing with 'Mushindo Kempo' or anything with Terrance Dukes (Nagaboshi) there have been many cries of Cult for many years.

Scott

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#85525 - 06/29/04 02:52 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Honestly I did feel like some of the information was inaccurate, especially the tomb paintings he said where the first written history of kung fu, many tkd historians say that is where tkd was first recorded. that and it had huge religious undertones, I just never met anyone else to discuss the material with,thanks I'm glad I didn't drink the Koolaid

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#85526 - 10/12/04 03:41 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


ugh Ki=breath Psi= mental energy Pyrokinesis=ability to heat your body up through concentration or other mental process Cryokinesis ability to cool yourself down or withstand extreme cold many case studies proving this ability, back to ki it is breath correctly breathing can protect you from a hit or increase the power of you hits through relaxing you the more relaxed you are the faster you are speed is yet another attribute of potental power Aura= nothing magical or mystical is simply the bodies bioelectrical energy with out this electricity runing through our brain or body we die as far as other Psi is the engine that ki runs on and someone is not going to do a test and get 10000000 dollars for concentrating on fire or such and changing their temperature which is the most common Psi trait ki balls and such are not needed just mental focus ki balls and such or simple pyschological crutches ppl use to tap into psi abilities

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#85527 - 10/12/04 06:54 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think fire and wind are TCM terms. I've heard those in reference to TCM theories. BUt I don't know TCM.

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#85528 - 10/12/04 11:49 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
AgenT,
Where are you from?

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#85529 - 10/15/04 01:59 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


my location is how can we say in transit I go from place to place studing different arts and theories you may think hmm this is someone who dont know anything about ki or other things I've spent alot of time researching this phenomana both in the metaphysical aspect and medical aspect I mean no disrespect and dont criticize other opinions but I also dont discount my research their is alot of crap out on ki chi psi and the elements I always was told that earth absorbs water water douses fire fire comsumes wind and wind raises above earth

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#85530 - 10/15/04 03:18 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gobzhad:
In the Original Vedic philosophy the 5 elements are: Air (same as Wind), Earth, Water, Fire and Nothingness. If EVERYTHING is a composite of these 5 elements or "humors" Ki must be 1 or more of them. Please treat this as serious biz. If people have believed in this for 10,000 years there must be SOMETHING to it. Somebody must know something around here.[/QUOTE]

Back to topic, this thread is terrible but i SHOULD point out that 10000 years ago was known as the paliolythic age, when man kind was first found, as is known by todays standards. There was no organized religion no concept of chi, ki or anything, there was no government. You are a fool. The cocept of chi comes from the Greeks, who called it Phnuma.* Martial arts didnt appear in asia till Alexander the Great conqured it.

Words no matter how convicingly put are nothing compaired to facts.

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#85531 - 10/15/04 05:24 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
AgenT,
I didn't ask where you are; i asked where you are from. I ask because some of your posts are difficult to read since you use no punctuation. Could you elaborate on your travels a bit? How do you support yourself? What have you studied so far?

[QUOTE]The cocept of chi comes from the Greeks, who called it Phnuma.[/QUOTE]

Do you know this for a fact? It's actually "pnuma" which means spirit. The Greeks did have some of the same concepts but there is no proof the Chinese gained this knowledge from them.

[QUOTE]Martial arts didnt appear in asia till Alexander the Great conqured it.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure you have some proof of this as well? Preferably from a credible academic source. Don't confuse the fact that while other civilizations did have their own systemized fighting that there is ONE source for martial arts. The popular term "martial arts" generally refers to those of Asian origin that are believed to have derived from the Bodhidharma at a monastery in the Songshan Mountains around 520 A.D.

[QUOTE]Words no matter how convicingly put are nothing compaired to facts.[/QUOTE]

This is true, but you haven't provided any facts yet. Until i see proof from an academic source that Alexander The Great introduced the martial arts to Asia and that the Chinese concept of chi was derived directly from the Greek, it's just more hearsay.

P.S. [QUOTE]You are a fool.[/QUOTE]

Don't start with the name calling.

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#85532 - 10/17/04 06:54 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Fine I wont call him a fool, no matter what he says.

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#85533 - 10/20/04 11:21 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually, the whole concept of "martial arts originate from Asia and the Shaolin Temple of Bohdidharma" to me is itself, a falacy. Martial Arts, though normally associated with the Shaolin temple of Bodhidharma, especially since there are so many of them, is contradicted by the story of Bodhidharma himself. He was from India, and knew of teh fighting and excercise systems before he came there; it is not as if he made it all up himself. If you compare the old Shaolin systems, especially their armed systems with a curved sword and shield, it is incredibly similar, if not identical, to Kalari, on of the first martial arts of India. Many martial artists and Buddhists monks traveled to India to study.

However, this is not to say India was the origin of all martial arts. To say "martial arts" refers to mainly Asian arts and not any system of fighting is either a misunderstanding, miscommunication, or a bias.

The origins of fighting systems (and yes, "Martial" and "Art" means "fighting/Lethal" "System of Ideas") are so old that no one can truly claim its origin.

Even if you associated them with the Shaolin arts, please consider at least the fact that Bodhidharma was a INDIAN man who CAME to China to spread Buddhism.

No offense or disrespect intended, but I don't like bias, especially froma studied man and a moderator.

With Repsect,
Nathan


P.S. See this website for a scholar's ideas of the history of ALL martial arts, has some events like end of Ice Age for refences, too.
Good timeline
http://ejmas.com/kronos/

Tell me what you think about it.

[This message has been edited by Super Cool Monkey Man (edited 10-20-2004).]

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#85534 - 10/21/04 02:04 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Before you jump and call me "biased" maybe you should take another look at the post and actually read it and not just assume what my stance or knowledge of the subject.

[QUOTE]He was from India, and knew of teh fighting and excercise systems before he came there; it is not as if he made it all up himself.[/QUOTE]

This isn't entirely true. The story is that when Tat Moh reached the temple of Shao Lin he found the monks in poor health due to long periods of fasting. Then story then states that Tat Moh retired to a cave and meditated for 9 years to find the answer for how to solve this problem. The exercises he eventually taught the monks were BASED on Indian forms of "exercise" such as Yoga, not a fighting system. The exercises he developed are now known as qigong. The monks themselves eventually developed fighting systems based on the qigong exercises taught to them in order to defend against bandits.

[QUOTE]Many martial artists and Buddhists monks traveled to India to study.[/QUOTE]

It was more the other way around. Buddhist monks were known to travel to China where their teachings were eagerly accepted.

[QUOTE]However, this is not to say India was the origin of all martial arts. To say "martial arts" refers to mainly Asian arts and not any system of fighting is either a misunderstanding, miscommunication, or a bias.[/QUOTE]

No it's just a common thought. A large majority of people associates the term "martial arts" with Asian arts. This is because the Asian arts were among the first introduced to us as an alternative to western boxing, a sport from its inception. So when someone says "martial arts" they are more than likely talking about Asian arts.

From Encyclopedia Britannica.
Martial art- any of various fighting sports or skills, mainly of East Asian origin, such as kung fu, judo, karate, and kendo.

Websterís dictionary.
Martial art- any of several arts of combat and self-defense (as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport

Dictionary.com.
Martial art- any of several Oriental arts of weaponless self-defense; usually practiced as a sport; "he had a black belt in the martial arts"

So if we are talking about the martial arts as defined above, with consideration to the fact that Tat Moh did NOT teach the monks to fight but taught them exercises to increase their flow of chi and subsequently their health, it is safe to say the martial arts DID evolve from China. This isn't to say other civilizations didn't have an influence.


[QUOTE]The origins of fighting systems (and yes, "Martial" and "Art" means "fighting/Lethal" "System of Ideas") are so old that no one can truly claim its origin.[/QUOTE]

This actually is true. Nothing is known for certain and never will be.

[QUOTE]Even if you associated them with the Shaolin arts, please consider at least the fact that Bodhidharma was a INDIAN man who CAME to China to spread Buddhism.[/QUOTE]

I never said he wasn't from India. Your arguing something that isn't there. Like i said, READ my post, don't just make assumptions about my meaning.

[QUOTE]No offense or disrespect intended, but I don't like bias, especially froma studied man and a moderator.[/QUOTE]

I don't like blind accusations from someone who doesn't take the time to ask questions and only makes assumptions.

It's well known that other cultures had their own systems of combat. You can't however say that just because two systems look similar that one was derived from the other. Similarity isn't enough to base this idea on.

Since the term "martial art" is most widely known to refer to Asia or oriental arts then it is safe to say the martial arts originated from China. Exactly where did i show "bias"?

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#85535 - 10/26/04 01:13 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry it took so long to reply My comps crap hmm how is it relevent where MA started Martial art means military skill Martial arts are describing Military skills sure a fighting system can be a martial art but not all systems are such as shaolin those arts are for betterment of oneself----sry I dont give my location to ppl I dont know as far as arts I've studied Shorin Ryu Shotokan Goju and seiei kan Karate--- LIN KUEI chuanfa and Ninjutsu---- Jujitsu Krav Maga and Jeet Kune do Concepts keep in mind I've studied these arts not nearly mastered them just sorting though whats usefull for me the main Art I study is Lin Kuei Chuan fa because its still combat oriented

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#85536 - 10/26/04 12:31 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by AgenT:
Sorry it took so long to reply My comps crap hmm how is it relevent where MA started Martial art means military skill Martial arts are describing Military skills sure a fighting system can be a martial art but not all systems are such as shaolin those arts are for betterment of oneself----sry I dont give my location to ppl I dont know as far as arts I've studied Shorin Ryu Shotokan Goju and seiei kan Karate--- LIN KUEI chuanfa and Ninjutsu---- Jujitsu Krav Maga and Jeet Kune do Concepts keep in mind I've studied these arts not nearly mastered them just sorting though whats usefull for me the main Art I study is Lin Kuei Chuan fa because its still combat oriented[/QUOTE]


Sorry, but your posts are way to difficult to read. You need to ditch martial arts school for some grammar school. It's not that I am totally anal, but a period at the end of a sentence can really do wonders for communication.

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#85537 - 10/26/04 08:26 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Duudes.. chill out.. it seems to me like you guys spend most of your time arguing instead of answering poster's questions...

I myself am Ki illiterate... i still havent gotten meditation downpat yet..( can't clear my head..) So im not going to make claims about what i know...


Cant we all just get along!!!

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#85538 - 10/26/04 09:49 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
The only questions i don't answer are those relating to Radki or telekinesis, pyrokinesis and such. If you actually read some of the threads you will see there is a lot of quality discussion among the regulars here.

I hope your here to contribute and not just chastise others based on your perceptions.

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#85539 - 10/26/04 10:51 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've had plenty of school. Sorry about my typeing its a old habit. I've had 7 typing classes so I can type well if I choose to. Iaf I agree I'm very tired of the dbz radki thing, it makes it difficult to find real knowledge. Hmm as far as ditching Ma classes, its not just classes its my way of life.

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#85540 - 10/27/04 01:34 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
AgenT,
I asked you where you are FROM, not where you are. The reason i asked is i wanted to make sure you were from the states before i asked you to start using spell and grammar check when posting. Your posts are seem to get worse with every post. Why the secrecy? How hard is it to say, "i'm from Ohio"? The idea that you travel from place to place studying different arts leads me to believe your not being honest. Based on your posts you seem to be very misinformed.

I'll tell you like i've told others. No psychic discussions or talk of any kinesis will go on here with out valid proof of these abilities.

If you expect anyone here to take anything you say seriously, clean up your posts and be a bit more truthful about your experience.

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#85541 - 10/27/04 03:18 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I did not mean to chide... I was just making an observation. Tell me, Most people tell me to visualize ki as fire, burning out from the hara, but someone also told me to try visualizing yourself in a pool of water waist-deep.. that your ki is the ripples eminating from your center as your energy moves from one part of you to the next.. this "ripple effect", maybe it is a good way to describe how others can feel your energy and you theirs?"

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#85542 - 10/27/04 03:33 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I supose visualizing chi is something that the individual chooses. I have hurd monks describe the method they use to warm themselves as visualizing fire or something. They wouldnt go into detail because apparently improper use of chi can hurt the body.

So I duno I guess I think visualizing chi as something like water, or waves is a better idea then visualizing it as atomic blasts :lol

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#85543 - 10/28/04 02:21 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm not being dishonest about my experience. I was born in West Virginia, which is currently where I'm studing seiei kan and shorin Ryu,satisfied. How am I seeming dishonest because I go from place to place to train? How am I misinformed? I havent claimed mastery of any of the arts I've studied, that would be dishonest. It seems that you think I am dishonest because I say I study several arts, I do I study as many as I can find but as I said I do have a base art. I'm sorry if I seem dishonest to you, I cant help that. I'll say it once more my posts are my opinions,no disrespect intended. I've had my share of violence and have being doing MA since I was very young, and I will admit I DO still have a lot to learn. But that doesn't mean I dont have anything to offer.

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#85544 - 10/28/04 03:35 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
You made it sound like you don't stay in one location, moving city-to-city, state-to-state in order to train in different arts. The only way this would be possible is if you are either in the military or financially independent. It's a bit far fetched. Nothing wrong with training in different systems, i've done the same. Your posts are usually incoherent rambling. This coupled with the fact that you all but refused to answer a simple question leads me to believe your just a teenager fluffing your experience in order to get people to take you more seriously. I'm not picking on you, but when you make posts like this ...

[QUOTE]ugh Ki=breath Psi= mental energy Pyrokinesis=ability to heat your body up through concentration or other mental process Cryokinesis ability to cool yourself down or withstand extreme cold many case studies proving this ability, back to ki it is breath correctly breathing can protect you from a hit or increase the power of you hits through relaxing you the more relaxed you are the faster you are speed is yet another attribute of potental power Aura= nothing magical or mystical is simply the bodies bioelectrical energy with out this electricity runing through our brain or body we die as far as other Psi is the engine that ki runs on and someone is not going to do a test and get 10000000 dollars for concentrating on fire or such and changing their temperature which is the most common Psi trait ki balls and such are not needed just mental focus ki balls and such or simple pyschological crutches ppl use to tap into psi abilities[/QUOTE]

It makes people wonder. Posts like this make you sound like a 13 yr old radki kid. If not then by all means, proof read your posts, punctuate them and make some effort to make them legible. No one is perfect and gets it right all the time, but at least try. You loose a lot of credibility when you make posts like this then refuse to give any info on yourself. Nothing about me is a secret. Anyone can e-mail me with questions about my work or training, or they can look at my yahoo profile for a little about me personally. I have nothing to hide.

Your more than welcome here, just like anyone else. When it comes to forums such as this written communication is imperative.

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#85545 - 10/28/04 10:26 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm not one of those teenage Radki people. I'm financially indepent for lack of better words, I do mostly out of state work but teach on the sid and the places I go to out of state I train at. Also sometimes not so much anymore because of money I go to overseas tournments, for some of the styles I study mostly Seiei kan tournys(not big fan of competition arts though I might add). I guess they have their uses. The reason Why I dont give any information about myself is around here giving out information makes you a prime target for hackers. Randy one of the guys I know lost 3000 dollars to a hacker because he put his email in a forum. The hacker got his email brute forced his Pw and took a acct number for one of those Poker sites and cleaned him and his brother out, so I'm cautious about giving info on myself, being so open with information is like painting a bullseye on your head out here. It happens all the time and no one does anything about it.

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#85546 - 10/29/04 12:13 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Where have you visited over seas?

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#85547 - 10/29/04 01:45 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


last year I went to scotland for the irish cup tournment. This year, I'm not sure but I think it will be held in scotland again. Unfortunatly because of money I'm not going this year. I can qualify for the AKJU team next year though. That is if I want to like I said I'm not really much for sport styles.

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#85548 - 11/14/04 02:46 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zero_Shin:
Ki means spirit in japanese so mostly it cant be fire or or wind or any elements it is the energy of ones self. That is the the simlest way to put it.

Actually the simplest way to put it is, there is no simple way. Actually "Ki" is a Japanese word that cannot be directly translated into an English word. I suggest reading the book entitled "Ki and the Way of the Martial Arts" written by Kenji Tokitsu and published by SHAMBHALA. This book has greatly helped me to understand the meaning of the word "Ki" in Japanese, and a greater meaning to the word "Budo", another word wich is hard to translate directly into an English word, and the word "Kokoro" used alot by Miyamato Musashi is another example of a word wich can be directly translated as mind, feeling, sensastion, sense, thought, idea, meaning, essence, heart, center, core, but the actual meaning cannot be described by one of those words. I dont know if that makes any sense to you guys, but read the book.

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#85549 - 11/21/04 04:36 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]
Duudes.. chill out.. it seems to me like you guys spend most of your time arguing instead of answering poster's questions...
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the people around here just mock the few posters who are actually trying to make use of this subforum.
Even the bloody moderators are at it, thats just terrible. There isnt really an excuse for why they act like that moderators/non-moderators, but nobody is going to do anything about them.. so we're stuck with a bunch of were-trolls :P

[QUOTE]
I hope your here to contribute and not just chastise others based on your perceptions.
[/QUOTE]
Thats pretty damn ironic coming from you, Laf [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#85550 - 11/21/04 05:14 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great, I just finished a post in another place.. came here to submit a quick reply to the entire 'element' thing, got the flood-message... pressed 'back', and the post is gone >_<

I said that I heard one of the inner energy varients (chi/ki/qi/whatever) was likened to water for some reason, but because I got no sleep last night at all, and its lunchtime now... my brain is melting..
..so try googling for it, try find some place that seems well-informed and cross-references its ideas with differenct sources.

I personally believe that inner energies have no element, being pretty much of a non-physical seeming nature... but if I had to attribute any element to it, it would be water.
Cant think right now.. so.. uh, hope that helps in some distant way!

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#85551 - 11/21/04 05:21 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Laf, you do realise the only person you can really change is yourself? If they have an immovable mind, they cannot be caught out, no matter what is said or done.

"Because im stubborn, you'll need more than being right, to prove me wrong" - Me, 2 years ago [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Why do you care so much about trying to catch them out, anyway?

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#85552 - 11/21/04 05:55 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


hehe I'm pretty stubborn to. I think if I could classify energy it would be void instead of water. I believe energy starts out neutral. I think it changes based on your intent. Thats if it does change. Sometimes my brain feels like its melting to hehe. Not to worry I have plenty of earwax to keep it from running out hehe.

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#85553 - 11/21/04 02:47 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by QiSnake:
Hey Laf, you do realise the only person you can really change is yourself? If they have an immovable mind, they cannot be caught out, no matter what is said or done.

"Because im stubborn, you'll need more than being right, to prove me wrong" - Me, 2 years ago [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Why do you care so much about trying to catch them out, anyway?
[/QUOTE]

Because if they are not telling the truth about their experiences or training but are giving advice it's a problem. I'm glad to see you can only focus on the negative aspects of the section and ignore all the valuable information exchanged. Try reding more than a couple of threads before you judge someone.


Editing for P.S.

I have no intentions of trying to "change" anyone. Only weeding out the liars, those who choose to come here and misrepresent them self in order to make people believe they are right. In most cases everyone here can see right through them, i just try to bring it to light.


[This message has been edited by laf7773 (edited 11-21-2004).]

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#85554 - 11/21/04 02:55 PM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by QiSnake:
[QUOTE]
Duudes.. chill out.. it seems to me like you guys spend most of your time arguing instead of answering poster's questions...
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the people around here just mock the few posters who are actually trying to make use of this subforum.
Even the bloody moderators are at it, thats just terrible. There isnt really an excuse for why they act like that moderators/non-moderators, but nobody is going to do anything about them.. so we're stuck with a bunch of were-trolls :P

[QUOTE]
I hope your here to contribute and not just chastise others based on your perceptions.
[/QUOTE]
Thats pretty damn ironic coming from you, Laf [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

Ironic? How is that? While i do take the ocassional jab at some i have done my share of contributing. I don't enter every discussion because i do have a life away from here and still moderate four other sections here.

I will also advise against you attacking the regulars here calling them "were-trolls". If you disagree with things here so much then why are you here?

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#85555 - 11/22/04 02:10 AM Re: Ki - WIND slement or FIRE element?
Anonymous
Unregistered


in response to the initial post, if you are talking about wind and fire being part of the 5-phases (fire, earth, metal, water, wood) then the wind aspect relates to wood. Qi is energy and the 5-phase theory breaks down the changes in this energy and isnt related to just one of them. if the energy is at it's peak then it is related to fire, metal-descending, earth-stable, water-nadir, wood-ascending. have a read of the i-ching and the yellow emperors classic of medicine-"suwen" to gain a clearer understanding on this.

hope it helps
matt

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