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#85419 - 12/29/03 03:32 AM Your Personal Space
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
We each have our personal space that we like to be respected. When someone invades that space we feel uncomfortable (unless they happen to be an attractive member of the opposite gender). We can "feel" if someone eners that space, even if we can't see or touch them.

We can influence the energy in this space to affect the intuitive sense of other people, if we "raise our hackles" we can appear aggressive and intimidate others and a coward will give off a submissive influence.

If somebody is upset we may be able influence them to be happy and if they are sick we may be able to make them feel better.

We can animate this "aura" to make it grow or mask it and make it shrink. Martial Artists of all descriptions utilise these skills and refine them to subtle levels.

What it does is to influence the other persons mind and subtle energies and it only works if you develop yourself through good and proper training and will only work on someone who doesn't know how to stop you.

A good Martial Artist will be able to prevent violence at this level on many occassions - sometimes just by "the look" or "stare" intimidating a violent person, sometimes by exuding politeness and friendliness and sometimes by masking his power and exuding submission.

By making the other person's space shrink and taking the power of their mind out of their body by intimidation, sudden movements, by pulling or manipulating them first, when they are hit, it will have a far more dramatic effect.

You can only influence someone from a distance if you get into their head first. "Ki Balls" or "Blasts" do not work (unless you can convince the target they will first)....

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#85420 - 12/29/03 08:18 AM Re: Your Personal Space
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
We can feel if someone eners that space, even if we can't see or touch them.

Sorry Steve, you can't feel anything. These are simply reading the physical signs that are available. Admitedly some people are far better at reading these signs than others.

We can influence the energy in this space to affect the intuitive sense of other people, if we raise our hackles we can appear aggressive and intimidate others and a coward will give off a submissive influence.

I agree that you can appear aggresive or defensive, but this is nothing to do with the energy in the space between people. It is again, simple physical reading.

We can animate this aura to make it grow or mask it and make it shrink. Martial Artists of all descriptions utilise these skills and refine them to subtle levels.

As there is no proof that this aura exists, I disagree that it could be grown or shrunk.

A good Martial Artist will be able to prevent violence at this level on many occassions - sometimes just by the look or stare intimidating a violent person, sometimes by exuding politeness and friendliness and sometimes by masking his power and exuding submission.

I agree, however this ability is nothing to do with some mystical power. Simple phisical signs.

JohnL

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#85421 - 12/29/03 12:03 PM Re: Your Personal Space
Bossman Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hi John

You're looking for some "mystical power" (your words not mine) that I didn't put there. Words like "aura" are not necessarily mystical, but natural English terms.

I think our difference is a fine line, I would say that "if you animate you emanate" and this can be chemical, heat, air disruption, sound, odour and other forms, the mix gives off attitude, sensed by the 5 senses and on an intuitive (or subliminal) level. I do not see this as "mystical" at all.

If I read you correctly, you are saying that you may animate but you don't enamate and that all signs are read through the 5 senses only?

Do you not feel that intuition and the ability to 'read" on a subliminal level may play an integral part in the Martial Arts?

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#85422 - 12/29/03 12:59 PM Re: Your Personal Space
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
I accept that you can "sense" someones intent using the 5 natural sense receptors you have. (ie. Sight, Smell, Hearing, Taste, Feel.)

I also accept that you will interpret these senses as dictated by your experience.

"Words like "aura" are not necessarily mystical, but natural English terms."

Correct, however while being a natural english term, they are generally accepted as the beginings of a definition of another sense. If it is simple a reading of the 5 senses I accept the definition.

"I think our difference is a fine line, I would say that "if you animate you emanate" and this can be chemical, heat, air disruption, sound, odour and other forms, the mix gives off attitude, sensed by the 5 senses and on an intuitive (or subliminal) level. I do not see this as "mystical" at all."

I don't believe it is an intuitive or subliminal level. It is just a thorough understanding of the combination of the 5 senses.

"If I read you correctly, you are saying that you may animate but you don't enamate and that all signs are read through the 5 senses only?"

Correct.

"Do you not feel that intuition and the ability to 'read" on a subliminal level may play an integral part in the Martial Arts?"

No. Once the MA is deprived of the 5 senses, he has no further sense to rely on. As such any further sense, as suggested by various potings is purely the result of accurately reading the 5 senses. I do not currently believe that a subliminal level exists.

JohnL

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#85423 - 12/29/03 01:54 PM Re: Your Personal Space
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hi John

You're saying that we can only percieve through the 5 senses, I don't disagree with that. We have to emanate, even if it is only odour, sound and heat.

Are you saying that we don't pick up on and are affected by these emanations from others like fear, anger, sex pheremones and so on in a subliminal way?

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#85424 - 12/30/03 07:39 AM Re: Your Personal Space
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bossman:
Hi John

You're saying that we can only percieve through the 5 senses, I don't disagree with that. We have to emanate, even if it is only odour, sound and heat.

Are you saying that we don't pick up on and are affected by these emanations from others like fear, anger, sex pheremones and so on in a subliminal way?
[/QUOTE]

No, I think you do pick up on these emanations. The difference we seem to have is how we percieve or interpret them.

Someone emanating fear.

You may see a submissive posture.
You may see them try to avoid eye contact.
You may see them perspire.
You may smell them sweat. (Iffy)
You may hear their voice quiver as they speak, or raise in pitch.
If you hold them you may feel them shiver.
If you hold them they may pull away in an uncontrolled fashion.

As such, rather than emanating something called fear, they are giving you any number of signals, that are picked up by the 5 senses, that you then interpret to mean that they are frightened.

The same can be done for anger, sexual attraction etc.

It is how experienced you are at interpreting the signals that may be percieved as intuition. It is really that it just seems that someone has intuition because of the greater experience level.

JohnL

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#85425 - 12/31/03 07:54 AM Re: Your Personal Space
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hey John
You got me using a dictionary here because I feel that our differences are mainly semantic. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

You don't seem to like the use of the words like "aura" or "energy" because they are commonly used by your ever growing FCP club and I feel that you are interpretating them in the same way that they do - I don't.

Subliminal means below the threshold of sensation or consciouness. Intuition means immediate apprehension by the mind without reasoning, immediate apprehension by a sense or immediate insight.

As Martial Artists we hone the skill of intuition because we don't have the time or the necessity to reason at concsious level. We use this skill to intuit the subliminal emanations of our opponent. His mouth and brain may be occupied trying to put one message accross, but it belies the message that he's sending subliminally. This gives us the most accurate readings.

If we train our mental and physical attitude we can deliberately influence him subliminally (that's how I interpret your "greater experience level") and also protect ourselves at this level.

I have trained with some of the greatest Kung Fu, Karate and Iaido Masters in the world and can categorically state that I have never met anyone that can move physical matter with their emanations and none that claim to be able to do so. Many did carry themselves with an aura (or should I say attitude) of power and their training certainly engendered a strong vitality in those that followed their teachings.

I have seen people crumple as a result of their own reaction to the practitioners power, but none that could do it to me.

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#85426 - 12/31/03 08:53 AM Re: Your Personal Space
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi Steve

I think you're probably right.

I also agree that all the really great masters, outside the MA world as well, give off the same feelings. They have a confidence and self assurance that can be assuring or worrying.
What I find interesting is when you take someone outside of the world in which they are self assured, and put them in a world where their skills are of limited use, looking at how they adapt to their new, unfamiliar environment.

JohnL

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#85427 - 12/31/03 09:56 AM Re: Your Personal Space
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hi John

I guess we see that in the Dojo quite a lot. In my Tai Chi class I had a very "schoolmarmsy" Midwife of great experience and every time I left her with a junior Instructor I would return to find her controlling him! "Do that again, *instructor demonstrates* ok now let me see it form this side, show me again....." She was used to being in control and assumed the role with the younger guy assuming the student role.

It was hilarious! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#85428 - 03/03/05 11:53 PM Re: Your Personal Space
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Perfect example of how differences of opinions should be discussed. Everyone take note.

[This message has been edited by laf7773 (edited 03-04-2005).]

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