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#85272 - 11/20/03 10:47 AM Tai chi Chuan
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
Ive begun learning tai chi chuan and am being taught some of the more useful points of pagwa,eny and backwa does anyone know if chi kung is a part of the syllabus for tai chi chuan or is it a seperate art in its self, ive read on websites that it is a part of the syllabus but this seems a little strange because isnt it an art in itself if anyone knows please reply and thanks in advance [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#85273 - 11/20/03 12:56 PM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Bossman Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Chi is life force and Kung is skill so Tai Chi is Chi Kung by it's very nature. There are Tai Chi specific exercises the teach the "Gengs" (power sourcing methods). Tai Chi is holistic and everything is done for a reason, so the "Chi Kung" "Hei Kung" and "Nei Kung" are all methods to improve health and fighting skill.

I think it has to be realised that there are no quick secret methods. The Chinese give "Tourist Tai Chi" or allow you to "eat sweet" to fill their rice bowls and give you nothing much. Or you search diligently to find the VERY rare Sifu that actually knows what they are talking about and like anything worth learning in this world you "eat bitter" to get it.

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#85274 - 11/20/03 06:20 PM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Fisherman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
karate-do
Taiji and Qigong are two separate arts but complement each other greatly. Bossman is right on target with this one; to find a tacher that is not simply "filling his rice bowl" is hard to come by.
In my opinion Qigong should be a part of the sylabus in teaching Taiji. It allows more time to practice certain energetic qualities, (jin's) in finer detail than when you are moving. Just remember, when training internal arts the key is to RELAX!!!
Good luck and train "soft".
Chris

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#85275 - 11/21/03 11:59 AM Re: Tai chi Chuan
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
you two both know what your talking about when it comes to internal martial arts and im a karateka so dont know much, do you think that from your experience there are any traights that might seperate a good teacher from a bad teacher? the man teaching me seems to know a lot but then again id be easily fooled as i dont know what to look for what i do know is he is 4th dan in aikido and has considerable background in the 3 chinese internal arts, id list them but only know how theyre pronounced and not how theyre spelt :0 and he is registered by the british chinese martial arts organisation or something with a simular name, thanks for the response in advance

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#85276 - 11/22/03 02:21 AM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Bossman Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
The British Council for Chinese Martial Arts is the Governing Body recognised by Sport England for governing Chinese Martial Arts FWIW.....

What's your Instructors name? Maybe I know of him or would probably know someone who does....

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#85277 - 11/22/03 08:39 AM Re: Tai chi Chuan
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
Internal arts club in Porthcawl (South Wales) researching the arts of Sun Lutang Phone: 01656784991

: John Jones
Internal arts, Traditional Sun Style Taijiquan @ 12 movement TCA
(28-07-2002)
I copied and pasted this from his link from the tai chi finder for the UK and ireland and he is a member of the british chinese martial arts governing body iirc

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#85278 - 11/22/03 09:06 AM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Fisherman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Kd - you asked...
..."do you think that from your experience there are any traights that might seperate a good teacher from a bad teacher?"
Absolutely; the things that sticks out, especially for beginners in IMA's is your sifu's knowledge of body structure and being able to see and correct your faults. This is the perfect place to start.
you also said; "Internal arts club in Porthcawl (South Wales) researching the arts of SUN LUTANG". I have not had the chance to read it yet but.. You may want to 'supplement' your instruction w/ Tim Carmell's translation of Sun Lutang's books. I have heard good things about this book. I have read some of Tim's other works and they are very high quality. I am currently reading "Effortless Combat Throws" and it totally rocks. Tim's descritions of principles and concepts is excellent!
As for the three major internal arts, spelling may vary but.. Tai Chi Chuan a.k.a. Taijiquan - Baguazhang, a.k.a. Pa Kua.. and Xing Yi, a.k.a. Hsing-I.
Remember to relax and train as if you are in fear of loosing it
Best Regards
Chris

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#85279 - 11/22/03 11:13 AM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hi karate-do
It's not anyone I have direct knowledge of, Fisherman seems more knowledgable in this area, but I'll ask around and see if anyone I know knows anything about the club and instructor....

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#85280 - 11/22/03 12:25 PM Re: Tai chi Chuan
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
k thanks guys ill be waiting intently for your next reply's

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#85281 - 11/22/03 12:27 PM Re: Tai chi Chuan
karate-do Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 428
Loc: Wales
btw fisherman what exactly did you mean by and train as if you are in fear of loosing it
?

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#85282 - 11/22/03 08:51 PM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
karate do
It's a saying I picked up back in my kung fu days. Actually it said "practice as if you were in fear of loosing it". I prefer traning over practicing. TO ME it is a statement that pushes me to train every day as if I were going to forget what I have learned. Additionally this every day push to train helps your muscles to remember proper structure.
If you guys are looking for more information on Tim Cartmell go to www.shenwu.com; that's his site. Some good info on IMA's there.
F

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#85283 - 11/23/03 03:27 PM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Kevin Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 122
Bossman, I am not trying to prove you wrong and humiliate you, nor do I do it to start a fight, I simply want to clarify a few things. In response to Karate do's question "...does anyone know if chi kung is a part of the syllabus for tai chi chuan or is it a seperate art in its self,...", you answered "Chi is life force and Kung is skill so Tai Chi is Chi Kung by it's very nature.", while chi kung may very well be a part of tai ch'i chaun, this explanation is incorrect. I can understand why this confusion has occured. Though you are right in saying that ch'i is life energy, in this context it has a different meaning. I do not speak the language, but I am fairly certain that there are many words with two meanings and I believe this to be the case with ch'i. Though your explanation makes perfect sense, "tai ch'i chuan does not mean Life energy skill fist". Here is an exert from shaolin.com, "t'ai chi ch'uan (="grand ultimate fist") has been given a New-Age face lift, by dropping the "Ch'uan" in an effort to disown its martial roots." (Taken from The Shaolin Gung Fu institute). I hope this has not confused anyone and I certainly hope this has not offended you bossman.

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#85284 - 11/23/03 08:39 PM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Kevin
Good point
Tai Chi Chuan = Grand Ultimate Fist/Boxing
Chi Gung (Kung, ie Kung Fu) = Mastery of Chi Methods?
C

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#85285 - 11/24/03 01:26 AM Re: Tai chi Chuan
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Not offended at all Kevin. If you read the post carefully you will see that I wasn't using the "Chi" translation from Tai Chi Chuan, but from Chi Kung. Sorry if I wasn't that clear.

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