FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 35 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
old1, Leonar, ManLar, Vimido, raya
22925 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 4
Ronin1966 3
GojuRyuboy13 2
AndyLA 1
Matakiant 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
Recent Posts
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Forum Stats
22925 Members
36 Forums
35582 Topics
432510 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#85030 - 05/10/04 08:58 AM Re: Fun with Qi
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
OK, most painful if locker on grass and lockee on pavement.

When both on grass or both on pavement felt similar.

When lockee on grass and locker on pavement similar to both being the same.

I was expecting that when the lockee was on the grass he would feel less pain than when both on grass.

Sorry to hear about Sensei Travers.
Sharon

[This message has been edited by still wadowoman (edited 05-10-2004).]

Top
#85031 - 05/10/04 03:27 PM Re: Fun with Qi
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
I am very sorry to hear that Mr. Travers is no longer with us. I only know of him through his forum posts, but if they are any indication those closer to him have lost quite a person. My condolences.

It appears from the experiment results that my initial theory must have been incorrect, but I'll state it here for the record anyway. Later in the post I'll take a stab at modifying the theory based on the evidence:

Original theory: The amount of pain we feel from a joint lock is inversely proportional to how much resistance we can offer. In other words, if we are standing on solid pavement we should be able to exert more force through our frame to counter the locking action-- unless our partner gets effective kuzushi (balance breaking) at which point we can offer little or no resistance and therefore feel the lock more strongly. The theory was that if the lockee is on the grass he cannot resist the lock as effectively because the ground absorbs some of his energy and also because the softer surface causes him to lose his balance sooner. Based on this idea, the most painful combination should have been lockee on grass and locker on pavement. It appears that was not the case at all.

New theory: 1. People tend to do things with their body when they apply joint locks that make them less effective. 2. Joint pain results from having all the "slack" taken out, then having the lock applied still further.

Softer ground would tend to minimize any errors (such as tensing the legs and lifting the body rather than settling) that the person applying the lock might make. In other words, it sort of forces that total relaxation we strive for, and forgives us if we have more tension than we should in some parts of our body. On the lockee side, being on pavement affords no additional slack once the lock is applied. Softer ground might give a bit and absorb some of the power applied, but no such luck on hard surfaces.

So that's my "non-ki" explanation attempt for why the worst case is locker on grass lockee on pavement. It's only a guess, but I think all this stuff is really interesting (joint locking is one of the neatest aspects of aikijujutsu, IMHO, and I am studying it very closely these days). I'd love to know what the rest of you think about how or why this works, including any ki explanations.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

PS: Sharon, thanks for conducting the experiment for me-- I don't know anyone who will let me play with joint locks outside of class.

PPS: Do you think the experiment results would change if repeated with resisting and non-resisting lockees?

Top
#85032 - 05/14/04 03:31 PM Re: Fun with Qi
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
BTTT...

Anyone have any more thoughts to share on this?

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Top
#85033 - 05/22/04 10:06 PM Re: Fun with Qi
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, actually. Another similar experiment:
Have one person hold an apple in their hand while holding their arm horrizontal to the ground. Person two tries to push down on hand. Do same experiment again, instead this time holding a bar of chocolate in their hand. The healthier food makes you stronger. (Try it, it works!) Also, try other health vs. "junk" food...

Top
#85034 - 05/22/04 10:14 PM Re: Fun with Qi
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually, yes. Try this similar experiment:
Have someone hold an apple (or other fresh fruit) in their hand while their arm is horrizontal to the ground. Push down on their hand. Repeat experiment, except this time have them hold a condy bar or other un-nutritional food in their hand. Weaker? it works..Try it! Health food DOES make us stronger!

Top
#85035 - 05/23/04 11:21 AM Re: Fun with Qi
Anonymous
Unregistered


Check out my post "experiment to try"

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga