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#84754 - 05/20/05 12:44 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: swords]
keodras Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 2
Yes i do have experience with this technique "iron shirt" i use it often and i did self teach it makes it worth more to me if i teach myself as its a lesson ill soon never forget... i have used this tech many times in combat why bother dodgeing or trying not to get hit when you can let them hit you all they want only only do harm to themselfs its a useful tech when you know how to use it without leaving yourself open in any spot

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#84755 - 05/20/05 01:45 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: keodras]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Some how i doubt your claims in iron shirt keodras. I really hope you have reviewed the ground rules at the top of the section.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#84756 - 05/20/05 08:40 PM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: laf7773]
Rumble Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 92
Iron shirt or robe technique will not make you impervious to injury. What it will do is to help you to take or absorb the hit better with minimal damage. I have learned some Iron robe technique with my Sifu and I can now take a hit from a wooden baseball bat with minimal damage. But no way can I not get seriously hurt by any sharp objects not even my sifu can do that. Oh and by the way I heard some stories from some poeple where they said there master could take a bullet with out getting hurt to me thats Bull sh!@#. The only person who can take a bullet and not get hurt is Superman lol.
_________________________
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#84757 - 05/21/05 12:08 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: pmac798]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Yes, bullets move too fast to not be hit with. It won't stop an experienced knife fighter from hitting you either. There are two methods, one of which is more physical based Iron shirt, and Golden Bell, which is a more internal. THe idea is that in Iron shirt, you are stiff and tense on the outside, but energy calmly flowing on the inside. While Golden Bell your skin is like cotton (The way it absorbs the energy being thrown at it) but inside your energy is furious with movement.

A shaolin monk once described his method that he was taught from his father, as being able to absorb the blow, literally into his "chi flow."

It won't make you superman, and it won't help much with headhits, except for some conditioning. The determination that comes from such rigorous training will certainly help in taking any blows. The idea is not to sit there while people hit on you, but it can certainly be used. For example, learning how to bounce and exhale the opponents fist right as it hits you is important, and many times their fist will break on you.

Also, it is not impervious to internal strikes.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#84758 - 05/21/05 03:11 PM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: BaguaMonk]
Hunter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Springfield, Illinois
I started doing my research on Iron shirt. There IS alot of emphasis in the Iron shirt about strengthening the body for sudden and unexpected injury. Its an EXTREAMLY advanced tecnique and extreamly hard to learn. But it would be usefull in a fight, or just every day life.

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#84759 - 04/02/07 12:45 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: Ashton]
Tengri Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 7
Quote:

A fellow by the name of Professor Thomas Keen has produced a book and video combo of Iron Vest Qigong, it is inexpensive and is of very good quality.




Thomas keen has two DVD with workbook. But the iron shirt is the green dragon iron vest. Its done, unlike the other sets they teach with NO tension. From the 18 daoist palms system he also has a Hay gung DVD which is 4 meditations. 2 hay gung and 2 neigong with % breath sequences. You do the closed eyed meditations back to back to activate the qi of the preceding hay gung which move the qi through the meridians or whatever the case may be with the exercise. It does not say it on those dvd but they were originally for resisting cuts from swords and blows from wooden objects. But done according to instructions, 5 minutes each meditation then the haygung, they are for health. This is a common theme with these sets and the iron body effect, although real can be over exaggerated. A meditation that opens the meridians can aid in health, but to deposit an excess of qi to store there to strengthen the areas covered by the meridians is a different story.

No one is going to develop iron body with wai dan hay gung alone. But its rare to find forms with the neigong, of which this set has. The green dragon iron vest has the neigong at the END. This exercise is called "old man makes medicine". It has movement so its not pure neigong but. You can simply sit with the hands formed the way illustrated on the knee's for inordinate periods of time BEFORE doing any hay gung and realize the more higher level benefits later on. The neigong builds up the energy and the haygung moves it around. This is the basic formula. However there are several ways of attaining, some better than others, some more strict than others. Basic health benefits simply mean 15-30 minutes a day. No sweat. Hours and hours of neigong for years before moving the qi around is another story.

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#84760 - 04/02/07 12:55 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: pmac798]
Tengri Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 7
Quote:

Hi,

I recently came across a book on Iron Shirt Chi Kung. The premise of the book looks interesting, but I am not sure what makes this "style" different than the others. Does anyone else have experience with Iron Shirt?




This is a difficult issue. Mantak chia's methods are difficult to train. I could write a similar instruction with stick figures and fill only both sides of a pieces of normal sized paper. This would be a "water path" method using similar structure. That being said, the title iron shirt is someone, unintentionally (?) deceptive. What is shown as the animal exercises and postures are simply qi mustering exercises often found in other systems. Why we get iron vest from wai qi liaofa or kong jing or yizhichan qigong, I dont now. Well I do know but what I am saying is how are people using these "secret" forms when they are used for something else entirely? Perhaps the secret is that if your comparing notes with someone, you'll find your art has a health exercise that his art is teaching makes you invincible. In the yizhichan qigong there is always the same emphasis. Opening or stimulating the Renmai, Dumai and Daimai. This is "hidden" in the postures which effect these channels in some way. When you look at it at another perspective, a good qi flow and storage in these meridians will produce a iron vest. However this seems kind of silly and deceptive. If someone is implying that a routine for qi emission can make you invincible they have 2 problems. 1) so many people do the exercises throughout different arts. 2) if qi flow produces the iron vest effect then you must first have skill in detecting and sensing the flow of qi, ect, ect. Actually I think there are more than 2 issues there but why go through all of them. It will make sense the more you collect and research the methods. When you comprehend them, then it is safe for you to train them. Imagine having the recipie to make a cake but not knowing about the logical order of events nor the time needed for each section. You have the kitchen and oven and ingredients, or can gather then over time. But you wont produce the cake without knowing that you dont mix the oil into the flour without adding the other wet ingredients first. And about whipping the eggs or flouring the pan, ect. What you will end up is a mess. Thats the secret. Even with the book, kitchen and ingredients, not everyone can cook. Even with a teacher.

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#84761 - 04/02/07 01:03 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: qimaster]
Tengri Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 7
Quote:

regards Iron Shirt, never ever attempt to learn it from a book. there are a few places where you can learn it rather openly,
such as Juko Kai schools, and also Wing Lams
Hung Gar schools.

to try and attempt self study will only invite serious long term injury or death.

rm




I would say as to the sets I have collected and researched and seen demonstrated they are mostly harmless. What is harmful is the ideas. A guy hits himself with an object and some fool says "he's hardnening his body for blows". But where is he hitting and why? Its disturbing to see people look and see only what they can comprehend. Hitting isnt nessessarily conditioning but taponment or palpation.

The dangerous techniques involve the eyes and striking and chopping the sides of the neck. The testicles, striking over the kidneys, and also the head. The cranial sutures never fully seal over. They are supposed to move and vibrate. Applying pressure to the skull and hitting it causes calcium deposits to build up in the sutures forcing them into a static condition.

Then you have dynamic tension which I feel has nothing to do at all with the results. Some have claimed that people performing the stone warrior without full tension have not produced results while others have. This does not prove or validate anything.

Adding tension to a qi emission skill set does not equal iron body or iron vest in my book. In fact the tension was added by a master perhaps to prevent rough and tumble types from discovering the qi flow. And instead the flow is restrained and stagnated into muscular armoring.

Which is another issue altogether. Modifyed health forms often become, magically, martial arts qigong methods. Interesting how that works.

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#84762 - 04/02/07 01:08 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: Kempoman]
Tengri Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 7
Quote:

Iron shirt/vest/Golden Bell is a very dangerous qigong and should not be trained without supervision.




Teaching health, dance, yoga and religous movements as killing arts to impressionable minds, with weapons and mish mash of mumbo jumbo thrown in with questionable historys, legends and teaching of modifyed techniques as blocks, punches and kicks is where the real danger is. A clenched fist, sure what else would that be. A leg kicked out, sure what else would that be but a kick right? Sure, if thats where your mind is at. That does not mean thats the only way or the way.

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#84763 - 04/02/07 01:13 AM Re: Iron Shirt [Re: Scholar]
Tengri Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 7
Quote:

I have read the book. The danger I believe is due to the Golden Buffalo, Golden Turtle positions, where extended forward bend over of torso affects veinous circultion. There is very good parts in there about standing posture and the sacral and cranial pumps.




I know people that co-wrote or knew the editor. What wasnt left out of the book, the original copy was modifyed. And it was intended to supplement the seminars. Blah, blah same old story right?

The older forms of "qigong" were meaned to effect venous circulation or the flow of CS fluid. Which required extreme angles and use of gravity and pressue. This is just an example of that idea. When you start changing something to be safer, you often also throw the baby away and keep the bathwater.

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