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#84439 - 04/13/05 12:27 PM Disgrace
Anonymous
Unregistered


From the Tao

"Accept disgrace willingly.
Accept misfortune as the human condition".

What do youthink Lao Tsu meant by "Accept disgrace willingly"?

Or to put it another way. Why accept disgrace willingly?

Top
#84440 - 04/13/05 12:37 PM Re: Disgrace
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
To accept loss of recognition, honour and titles - to become at peace with oneself in what appears to be a disharmonious position.

To accept that life has it's ups and downs and be able to accept them with equaniminity.

Top
#84441 - 04/13/05 01:53 PM Re: Disgrace
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lao Tsu also wrote:

"Can you see the calm in turbulent waters;
the clarity in murky water?

Can you allow the tides of Infinite change
to move you from stillness to motion
and action to inaction;
experiencing but not contemplating the
change?"

Could Lao Tsu be telling us that disgrace (or honor) is impermanent and superficial? One of the predominant themes of this type of thinking is for one to wish for things as they are. This is an attitude of acceptance and willingness to take with indifference whatever life may throw your way.

I have seen the word "willingly" also translated as "indifferently" which I believe to be a better translation in this case.

I'd like to hear some other thoughts.

--Dallas

Top
#84442 - 04/13/05 02:01 PM Re: Disgrace
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dallas:
Lao Tsu also wrote:

"Can you see the calm in turbulent waters;
the clarity in murky water?

Can you allow the tides of Infinite change
to move you from stillness to motion
and action to inaction;
experiencing but not contemplating the
change?"

Could Lao Tsu be telling us that disgrace (or honor) is impermanent and superficial? One of the predominant themes of this type of thinking is for one to wish for things as they are. This is an attitude of acceptance and willingness to take with indifference whatever life may throw your way.

I have seen the word "willingly" also translated as "indifferently" which I believe to be a better translation in this case.

I'd like to hear some other thoughts.

--Dallas
[/QUOTE]


The 3 characteristics of existence in Buddhism teach that all existence is:

Impermanent
Unsatisfactory
Not self

This would appear to be what Lao Tsu is alluding to, whether its good or bad change it's an illusion - it's just change and to try and to have an unnatural attraction or aversion to it will only cause dis-ease.

A good word for me would be to accept it all with equaniminity.

Top
#84443 - 04/13/05 06:34 PM Re: Disgrace
Anonymous
Unregistered


But Lao Zi (official pinyin translitteration) wasn't buddhist, he was taoist (well, FOUNDED toism, to be more accurate)... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

Top
#84444 - 04/13/05 07:13 PM Re: Disgrace
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually, wasn't Taoism founded based on the Tao Te Ching and not specifically by him?

I don't think he "founded" Taoism because he did not want to be followed, did not want to be emulated. Am I totally off base on that? I thought I had read that, but I could be mistaken.

Joel

Top
#84445 - 04/13/05 10:00 PM Re: Disgrace
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by oldman:
From the Tao

"Accept disgrace willingly.
Accept misfortune as the human condition".

What do youthink Lao Tsu meant by "Accept disgrace willingly"?

Or to put it another way. Why accept disgrace willingly?
[/QUOTE]


Aceeptance is the first step to compassion. without compassion we suffer. ask yourself disgrace as opposed to......? Remove the duality of mind and the answer lies bare.

<gassho>

Top
#84446 - 04/14/05 02:33 AM Re: Disgrace
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JoelM:
Actually, wasn't Taoism founded based on the Tao Te Ching and not specifically by him?

I don't think he "founded" Taoism because he did not want to be followed, did not want to be emulated. Am I totally off base on that? I thought I had read that, but I could be mistaken.

Joel

[/QUOTE]


It's arguable whether taoism is buddhist as it arose at the same time as buddhist texts were being circulated in China, but I was simply using buddhist teachings to explain what I thought Lao Tsu meant.

Top
#84447 - 04/14/05 08:01 AM Re: Disgrace
Anonymous
Unregistered


Would it be safe to say that Zen as practiced in japan is a branch of buddism influenced by Taoism and shintoism?

Top
#84448 - 04/14/05 08:34 AM Re: Disgrace
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oldman:
Would it be safe to say that Zen as practiced in japan is a branch of buddism influenced by Taoism and shintoism?[/QUOTE]

Yeah - Zen buddhism emanates from the Chinese Chan buddhism.

Top
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