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#83820 - 07/04/04 10:07 AM How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
Anonymous
Unregistered


There are two kinds of meditation, speaking very broadly: formal and informal. Formal meditation involves focusing the mind on one particular thing and maintaining that focus. Informal meditation, ideally, is what you do when you're not formally meditating [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] it is simply accepting whatever occurs in the moment...a smell, a memory, a person, whatever...you do not choose a focus but allow them to come to you.

I have a lot of time for both styles of meditation, but I prefer formal.

Here is a simple 3-step guide for a formal style of meditation-> Breath Meditation

1)Sit comfortably with an upright spine.

2)Let eyes either be open or closed, whichever you prefer.

3)Focus your mind on your breathing.

This is not focusing on the body, it is focusing on the air flowing in and out the body through the nose.

Do NOT control the breathing! The goal of the exercise is to practice control of your mind...let go of whatever breathing pattern manifests...it is often shallow and even when you are relaxed, but it can be faster and heavier, especially when emotions are being physically expressed...let the breath be what it wants to be, simply stay with it.

Keeping your mind focussed is not easy, especially at first. Almost certainly the beginner's mind quickly drifts to other things...accept that this will happen and when you have realised your mind has drifted...learn to return once again to your breathing.

A good way to start is in the morning, go for 10-15 minutes, and the same in the evening before bed. After a little practice try moving up to 30 minutes, or even an hour.

The more you practice the easier it will become.

Remember, this is learning to focus! It is an activity...drifting off into a relaxed doze is nice but that doesn't do anything for training the mind

Good luck and enjoy

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#83821 - 07/05/04 04:09 PM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Plumb:
There are two kinds of meditation, speaking very broadly: formal and informal. Formal meditation involves focusing the mind on one particular thing and maintaining that focus. Informal meditation, ideally, is what you do when you're not formally meditating [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] it is simply accepting whatever occurs in the moment...a smell, a memory, a person, whatever...you do not choose a focus but allow them to come to you.

I have a lot of time for both styles of meditation, but I prefer formal.

Here is a simple 3-step guide for a formal style of meditation-> Breath Meditation

1)Sit comfortably with an upright spine.

2)Let eyes either be open or closed, whichever you prefer.

3)Focus your mind on your breathing.

This is not focusing on the body, it is focusing on the air flowing in and out the body through the nose.

Do NOT control the breathing! The goal of the exercise is to practice control of your mind...let go of whatever breathing pattern manifests...it is often shallow and even when you are relaxed, but it can be faster and heavier, especially when emotions are being physically expressed...let the breath be what it wants to be, simply stay with it.

Keeping your mind focussed is not easy, especially at first. Almost certainly the beginner's mind quickly drifts to other things...accept that this will happen and when you have realised your mind has drifted...learn to return once again to your breathing.

A good way to start is in the morning, go for 10-15 minutes, and the same in the evening before bed. After a little practice try moving up to 30 minutes, or even an hour.

The more you practice the easier it will become.

Remember, this is learning to focus! It is an activity...drifting off into a relaxed doze is nice but that doesn't do anything for training the mind

Good luck and enjoy
[/QUOTE]

The training is for awareness of how the body is affected by the mind. Training the mind requires the mind itself to be aware of all its "control of natural body intelligence". A life time of drifting mind would not be focus by just breathing, a radical change in mind habit would. Responsibility for one,s thoughts, and emotions and how this makes a cause and has an effect. The particular thing that the mind focus is itself, its erroneous thinking patterns. Objects just makes one aware of one,s false perceptions and internal chatter. All these problems exists because of discipline of the mind, not just body.

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#83822 - 07/06/04 08:05 AM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by pete:
The training is for awareness of how the body is affected by the mind. Training the mind requires the mind itself to be aware of all its "control of natural body intelligence".

Really I think the mind's awareness of "control of natural body intelligence" is just an outcome of focusing the mind on something (eg breathing), rather than a requirement.


A life time of drifting mind would not be focus by just breathing, a radical change in mind habit would. Responsibility for one,s thoughts, and emotions and how this makes a cause and has an effect. The particular thing that the mind focus is itself, its erroneous thinking patterns. Objects just makes one aware of one,s false perceptions and internal chatter. All these problems exists because of discipline of the mind, not just body.[/QUOTE]

All of the problems exist ONLY because of the mind, the body is just an outcome. You seem to understand this, but I think you are mistaken in thinking the mind should be focusing on itself...in the formal breath meditation the mind is focused on the breath, not itself. In informal meditation the focusing capacity of the mind is released so that you can appreciate the always newness of experience.

To use an analogy, think of the mind as a torch with the capacity to fixate it's light beam on a single spot (formal) and as well as this it has the capacity to move that beam of light around (informal).

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#83823 - 07/07/04 06:31 PM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Plumb:
All of the problems exist ONLY because of the mind, the body is just an outcome. You seem to understand this, but I think you are mistaken in thinking the mind should be focusing on itself...in the formal breath meditation the mind is focused on the breath, not itself. In informal meditation the focusing capacity of the mind is released so that you can appreciate the always newness of experience.

To use an analogy, think of the mind as a torch with the capacity to fixate it's light beam on a single spot (formal) and as well as this it has the capacity to move that beam of light around (informal).

[/QUOTE]

Focusing on itself is a misconception as regarding the mind, as the self is one and focus on awareness of breath. The newness of experience is the ego, that does not distort real experience. A mind that focus on itself, is reflection and not "inflection" is there is such a word, looking from the inside and not just through the minds, structures ego,processing speed, and comprehension of internal status. Just feel and see with the mind and experience things as they are, the nature of the mind and object is one.

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#83824 - 07/07/04 09:39 PM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
gokenki1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 120
Loc: north waterford , me, usa.
plumb why create a duality with formal and informal, mind set is the same.to cconcentrate on the breathing is to create attachment to breathing,free the mind through meditation not enslave it.

Scott

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#83825 - 07/08/04 12:01 PM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
plumb why create a duality with formal and informal, mind set is the same.to cconcentrate on the breathing is to create attachment to breathing,free the mind through meditation not enslave it.

Scott
[/QUOTE]
This duality does exist in most people. The formal and informal is upbringing which fosters a divided self. Real knowledge has not caught up to meditation and its liberating natural mind that is "one" and objects is seen as it. Most post on martial forums has this duality of formal and informal. Needs a "one" mind one heart revolution to move towards "liberty and freedom of the individual to express, him, herself, without informal and formal obstacles?

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#83826 - 07/09/04 12:29 PM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
plumb why create a duality with formal and informal, mind set is the same.to cconcentrate on the breathing is to create attachment to breathing,free the mind through meditation not enslave it.

Scott
[/QUOTE]

It is not a duality of mind, formal meditation is practicing focus, choosing something to focus on, and staying with it.

It is not enslaving the mind to the breath, it is learning how to discpline your mind! The idea is for your mind to learn to be the one in control of itself. Teachers talk about creating a "work space" around your chosen focus (it can be anything) and not allowing the mind to leave this "work space". If you haven't tried it I recommend it as a challenge. I expect those without any practice will find it very difficult to maintain focus for any length of time.

When living life in general your mindset is not the same at all as when you are formally meditating... strangely enough practicing focus meditiation helps a mind move with the constant changingness of experience.

Top
#83827 - 07/09/04 06:07 PM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Plumb:
It is not a duality of mind, formal meditation is practicing focus, choosing something to focus on, and staying with it.

It is not enslaving the mind to the breath, it is learning how to discpline your mind! The idea is for your mind to learn to be the one in control of itself. Teachers talk about creating a "work space" around your chosen focus (it can be anything) and not allowing the mind to leave this "work space". If you haven't tried it I recommend it as a challenge. I expect those without any practice will find it very difficult to maintain focus for any length of time.

When living life in general your mindset is not the same at all as when you are formally meditating... strangely enough practicing focus meditiation helps a mind move with the constant changingness of experience.
[/QUOTE]

Living life is general should have the same mind set as when you are meditating.... natural free from duality and responding to reality in an attentive and focus way.... If that is not a habit fostered with years of "awaken conciousness and not unconcious duality". Then meditation is just an exercise and not related to real living experiences on a dialy basis,

Top
#83828 - 07/10/04 10:35 AM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
Anonymous
Unregistered


Pete,

The experience of life is always changing, that is why the SKILL of being able to focus the mind is a very good one to practice. This is why I advocate practicing focus as a meditation...when doing this you are meditating on something.

As we go through life we need to be able to focus intently on things for a period of time and then move on. To give you an example, when crossing the street it is important to be focused on any cars that might approach you. If you don't you might get run over.

We all have the mental ability to focus, but the degree to which it is developed and controlled varies from individual to individual. The more we can be in control of our mind's and it ability to focus, the more we can succeed in the things that we want to accomplish in this lifetime.

Let me present the challenge of breath meditation to you...have you tried it? You might be surprised by how effective it is in calming and centering the mind into "the here and now"

Top
#83829 - 07/10/04 02:12 PM Re: How to meditate : the formal and informal distinction
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Plumb:
Pete,

The experience of life is always changing, that is why the SKILL of being able to focus the mind is a very good one to practice. This is why I advocate practicing focus as a meditation...when doing this you are meditating on something.

As we go through life we need to be able to focus intently on things for a period of time and then move on. To give you an example, when crossing the street it is important to be focused on any cars that might approach you. If you don't you might get run over.

We all have the mental ability to focus, but the degree to which it is developed and controlled varies from individual to individual. The more we can be in control of our mind's and it ability to focus, the more we can succeed in the things that we want to accomplish in this lifetime.

Let me present the challenge of breath meditation to you...have you tried it? You might be surprised by how effective it is in calming and centering the mind into "the here and now"
[/QUOTE]

Yes breath meditation with body relaxation, I have done this for years, not in an informal or formal way. Self-hypnosis for relaxation is also a part of breath awareness, to calm and "keep the mind in its awareness state of centre and here and now.
Concentration comes from physical exercise, kata, martial arts training, and weights. The result a photographic memory, ability to grow every year from new skills. Skills that are difficult are not a problem but a challenge resolved from centred and here and now awareness. Daily increase in fitness of the mind and body. Yes the breath meditation is a natural rhythm of the breath and is "and indication of the minds health" centred and here and now.
DE mille interview on bruce and meditation.
: "Can you expound more on the hypnosis you taught Lee and how he combined that with meditation?"
JD: Bruce did not like the term hypnosis, but felt that it was a much faster way to access the subconscious than conventional meditation. Hypnosis and meditation both have the same intent. To travel within, and use the inner mental potentials to accelerate training. My input was to teach him self-hypnosis and how to develop suggestions in the areas he was concerned.

[This message has been edited by pete (edited 07-10-2004).]

[This message has been edited by pete (edited 07-10-2004).]

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