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#83759 - 05/23/04 10:13 PM zazen
gokenki1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 120
Loc: north waterford , me, usa.
true zazen is to put this passage by zen master huang-po into practice "the substance of the absolute is inwardly like wood or stone,in that it is motionless and outwardly like the void,in that it is without bounds or obstructions."

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#83760 - 06/14/04 08:52 PM Re: zazen
pete Offline
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Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
true zazen is to put this passage by zen master huang-po into practice "the substance of the absolute is inwardly like wood or stone,in that it is motionless and outwardly like the void,in that it is without bounds or obstructions."[/QUOTE]

These are metaphor within the context of a culture, and does not represent true zazen. If he had lived in your own culture then the concept would have made more sense and you would not be harping about passages out of cultural context, true Zazen is true zazen in any cultures despite different cultural metaphor uses or concepts.

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#83761 - 06/14/04 09:26 PM Re: zazen
gokenki1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 120
Loc: north waterford , me, usa.
pete you are right they are metaphors but not concepts. they are exact instructions that lead within where true zazen lies.truth was the same in huang-po day as it is today how can there be any difference.

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#83762 - 06/15/04 08:22 AM Re: zazen
pete Offline
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Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete you are right they are metaphors but not concepts. they are exact instructions that lead within where true zazen lies.truth was the same in huang-po day as it is today how can there be any difference.[/QUOTE]

Instructions are tools but concept are the tools that leads to instruction, concept without method is just a concept. The difference is the method and the truth is for all not just huang-po days, existed before hunag-po, information and methods were only available to people who could read. Za-zen is no mystery as all are buddah natural and "recover that which was lost" to the masses, but used by people who had access and historical development of instructions, probably would find this in every culture of the world and human being. Truth is universal and belongs to no human being.

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#83763 - 06/15/04 04:50 PM Re: zazen
gokenki1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 120
Loc: north waterford , me, usa.
pete I'am curious to what concept you are refering to in huang-po words.zazen is designed to strip away all concepts and put an end to all illusions.how familiar are you with zen.

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#83764 - 06/15/04 05:00 PM Re: zazen
pete Offline
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Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete I'am curious to what concept you are refering to in huang-po words.zazen is designed to strip away all concepts and put an end to all illusions.how familiar are you with zen.[/QUOTE]

If you are familiar with Zen then that is not Zen but concepts. and this is illusions huang-po word are his words as my familarity is by my own freshness and self discipline over 30 years of remaing fully in the now. So this experience has made unfamiliar to attachments and false realities to see what is my words and what is huang-po words. I do not place another individual personality as my personality but unique as your words and the words of haung-po.

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#83765 - 06/15/04 05:15 PM Re: zazen
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pete:
If you are familiar with Zen then that is not Zen but concepts. and this is illusions huang-po word are his words as my familarity is by my own freshness and self discipline over 30 years of remaing fully in the now. So this experience has made unfamiliar to attachments and false realities to see what is my words and what is huang-po words. I do not place another individual personality as my personality but unique as your words and the words of haung-po. [/QUOTE]
"Only awake to the One Mind and there is nothing whatever to be attained."
So haung po must have been a physicist but used metaphor language instead of scientific language to explain the nature of mind or spirit, where did he get his source of information from and I bet it,s probably existed before he "discovered it". Only saying what his cultural info and lineage are saying, probably said by others cultures in a different way. Basically he is saying there is no void but information not available to others can be used as a means to create a personality that is supposedly different from others. In other words he is a free thinking intelllectual who is human and the rest is his fan club.

Natural and as simple as a child seated cross legged and just enjoying the nature of their being and how this creates the realities of what one see, think and hear. One awaken and the universe is me and I create my own realities and destiny zazen as meditation has been a practice I have done everyday almost for 25 or more years. Second nature, first nature as I have no second nature just natural child "born to be "wild" and free as nature is. Learning all the time about huang-po and others never offender about new knowledge just grateful for info.

[This message has been edited by pete (edited 06-15-2004).]

[This message has been edited by pete (edited 06-17-2004).]

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#83766 - 06/16/04 08:01 PM Re: zazen
gokenki1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 120
Loc: north waterford , me, usa.
pete if i offended you it was not my intention,let's forget about haung-po for a moment,in your 30 years of experience what is your feelings on zazen the practice.

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#83767 - 06/17/04 04:11 PM Re: zazen
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete if i offended you it was not my intention,let's forget about haung-po for a moment,in your 30 years of experience what is your feelings on zazen the practice.[/QUOTE]

Huang-po I had never heard of him before this forum glad for the info. John alexandra around 1974 was my first meeting with Zazen 14 at the time, my feeling on the subject of Zazen the practice is "garbage in and gardage out". The mind needs some form of internal discipline or it loses it,s capacity to just be. To be or not to be the answer is to be. Have not wondered from the present moment more than 25 or maybe more years. Learnt about emotionalism of the moment through "stomach" near death experience how emotions thinking affects health. Started meditation at 14 dues understand childhood "trauma" 3 months asleep when 2 years old, with injuries to both legs, stomach and jaws, still have scars and childhood pins in both legs. Operation on jaws and legs and stomach so Zazen is a powerful healing tool, self-hypnosit to accept trauma and let Chi energy heal body. Did not know what this was when young but felt its power, 620lbs squats up to 700lbs once. Hidden strenght. All the emotional scars have healed and imagination and music have revealed more mind gifts. So zen is a reality I have tested and the reality of the moment has many benefits and growth. Non attachements I have also understood, to fulfil my potential as my individuality evolves to when "I survived 3 months of unconsciousness at 2 years old". Now I am currently recovering through Zazen Cancer, tumour on chest, only early stages, beginning to dissapear through "self-hypnosist" and ZAZen the moment never surrender to non reality of past or present thought patterns that enslaves and repeats so as not to live in the present.

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#83768 - 06/17/04 05:05 PM Re: zazen
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gokenki1:
pete if i offended you it was not my intention,let's forget about haung-po for a moment,in your 30 years of experience what is your feelings on zazen the practice.[/QUOTE]

Natural and as simple as a child seated cross legged and just enjoying the nature of their being and how this creates the realities of what one see, think and hear. One to zazen as meditation has been a practice I have done everyday almost for 25 or more years. Second nature, first nature as I have no second nature just natural child "born to be "wild" and free as nature is. Learning all the time about huang-po and others never offender about new knowledge just grateful for info.

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