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#82879 - 06/17/03 06:17 PM Re: Does size matter
madhag Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hong Kong, the Bronx and Seattle. Grew up in da hood and such.:0

My point is that one can get past the size issue. Yes, it does matter that I'm scared that most people can toss me across a football field... far fetched on the far side but hypothetically true. The challenge is to think past the limitations of being small, or big, or clumsy, which we are all capable of.

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#82880 - 06/19/03 06:50 AM Re: Does size matter
Kotetsu Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 314
Loc: Hollis, NH, USA
Harping on this point again, there is more than one type of big. I'm tall but weigh very little. My friend on the other hand is short but has about 70lbs on me, making him big. That said, large people(big and tall, or just plain BIG) usually are fairly concieted about there strength and it's ability to overwhelm everything. So you let them think they have upper hand...

PS UKFF, just cause I look like a stick insect doesn't mean anything. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] I actually do eat alot I just have a really high metabolism. Sorry it took a while to reply to your post thing but hey, that's the way the world turns.

[This message has been edited by Kotetsu (edited 06-19-2003).]

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#82881 - 06/19/03 06:59 PM Re: Does size matter
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Almost everyone has commented about whether an opponent's size in relation to you has any bearing on your chance of success in a confrontation, but no one has commented on how your technique has to change in response to changes in the size of your opponent.

I would like to address the second point, and I would say that without a doubt, size matters. Most of the techniques I practice involve balance breaking, generally by moving a person's center of gravity outside the bounding box defined by his feet. On a tall person, you generally have to make much larger movements to accomplish this. On a smaller person, a large move like this might provide them ample opportunity to counter, or transform the technique into something other than what it was intended to be.

Every technique has to be adapted to your opponent. Next time you try a new technique, practice with the shortest person in your class until it "feels right"-- then try it on the tallest person in your class. You will be surprised how it has to be adapted to fit the new opponent. It's important to keep these things in mind, especially if you tend to train mostly with a favorite partner.

Even in striking arts, your target selection can be greatly affected by size differences- If you are 5'2" and your opponent is 6'6" then you most likely won't be hitting him in the head without a detour at the knees or groin first.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing how other people adapt techniques for extreme size differences, and about any techniques which lose effectiveness under these conditions. Understanding these differences is the key to understanding the answer to the other question, i.e. can a smaller, weaker, capable martial artist defeat a larger, stronger, capable martial artist. The answer: sometimes.

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#82882 - 06/20/03 06:20 PM Re: Does size matter
madhag Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Seattle, WA
what i like about training with people twice my size is that i learn quickly what works and doesn't work. This is my very general outline for big guys: defensively, more evasion, and redirecting blocks than stop blocks. Footwork and speed, keep on moving than being still. Offensively, precise targeting to soft effective areas such as kidney, floating ribs, solar plexus, throat(if he is not too terribly tall), pressure points on inner arms/legs and knees, shin, top of foot. Avoid ineffective targets on big build guys such as the upper ribs and head which i can't reach unless he lowers it. Use of multiple blows instead of dependence on a decisive stike. Use combos to open up targets, and to set up for his imbalance. I fight closer in and stick because his power has not reached its full potential at such a short distance, plus for my stubby arms and legs to reach. I like to suddenly drop to the floor (with my leg butt, and arm on the floor for balance support and mobility)with a kick to the knee or groin, can be very surprising! And of course, use of mental projection, intention, focus, no dillydallying (true for all regardless of size). And get over my mental garbage that i'd be crushed!
i practice sparring with multiple (2-5) partners. It works for me to keep moving, fight with the mentality of an attacker rather than defender, precise targeting to effective targets, use of breath and kiai for power and control. I use that whenever i feel mentally overwhelmed in sparring.

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#82883 - 06/21/03 06:19 PM Re: Does size matter
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Hi John,its your pain in the arse military friend. To answer you question, size and weight do play an important part in the out come in a fight. Take two people that are equal in technique and stamina. One is 6'5" and 260lbs. The other person is 5'9" and 170lbs. The bigger guy will always win. The only chance the smaller guy has is to have better stamina,technique,luck and most importantly heart. Then he might have a chance. Have you ever tried to armbar a larger, stronger person. I bet he just pulled right out of the technique. Just because the ad said "defend yourself against bigger, stronger opponents" doesn't mean you have to belive it. That is why they have weight classes in Judo and most other martial arts. Always train for worse case situations. Train with the biggest guy in your dojo. Get use to the feel and the weight.Learn how to use his size against him. Only "flight time" will help you learn. Ed www.lonewolfjujutsu.com

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#82884 - 06/21/03 10:38 PM Re: Does size matter
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kotetsu:
Harping on this point again, there is more than one type of big. [This message has been edited by Kotetsu (edited 06-19-2003).][/QUOTE]

Thats a good point.

I have greater trouble dealing with reach than the trouble I have dealing with 'bigger' (wider) people.

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#82885 - 06/22/03 12:54 PM Re: Does size matter
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Reach? Please explain.

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#82886 - 06/23/03 08:02 AM Re: Does size matter
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi Ed, (pain in the arse military friend.)

"To answer you question, size and weight do play an important part in the out come in a fight. Take two people that are equal in technique and stamina. One is 6'5" and 260lbs. The other person is 5'9" and 170lbs. The bigger guy will always win."

At last an interesting response to the original question. My next question is how much better in technique, stamina, heart, do you have to be to overcome the advantages a bigger person may have. I also note that you didn't mention strength. It may be that the smaller guy is stronger.

"Have you ever tried to armbar a larger, stronger person."

I think it's important that you differentiate between larger and stronger. Larger people I have no problem with. Stronger ones I use distractions prior to applying a locking technique.

"That is why they have weight classes in Judo and most other martial arts."

If that's the case why don't they have weight classes in sumo.

JohnL
(Your pain in the arse civilian friend)

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#82887 - 06/23/03 09:07 AM Re: Does size matter
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Sumo if very differnet but it does prove my point. The yokosuna is usually the largest most powerfull of the lot. He aslo has good technique. Ocassionally a smaller sumo guy will beat him with superior technique, not power. Size and power rule. It is a fact of nature.
As far as how good do you have to get. Only experiece will tell you. Skip the guys in the dojo. Enter an open class grappiling tournement. See how you do. That will be a good indicator of how good you are. Don't rely so much on your dirty tactics to save the day. Combine them with superior skill!Ed www.lonewolfjujutsu.com

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#82888 - 06/23/03 09:13 AM Re: Does size matter
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Also if you are using strentgh to do your techniques you have a poor instructor. Jujutsu and any other grappiling art is about leverage. By using your strength you telegragh all of your moves and burn your self out quickly. Reserve your energy. Fight as if you are fighting your 5 year old sister. I remember Rickson Gracie telling me this. Ed

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