FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 63 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
THEFOREVERMAN 3
Dobbersky 2
MattJ 2
royal 2
UKfightfreak 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:22 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:20 AM
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432378 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 5 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#82708 - 05/06/05 09:58 PM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: SANCHIN31]
Ace Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 101
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:

Generating maximum power in a very short distance is a long term goal. Not something achievable for a novice.Tensho kata helps achieve this and use to be one of the last kata taught instead of one of the first.
Same principle,knife hand to the vegas nerve from very close.You have to have practiced for many years to have proper body alignment and generate the power from the ground up.



You may be right in saying its not something acheivable to a novice, as they do not generally have the finnesse, power or control of a long term practitioner, but i believe an intermediate practitioner can easily learn the technique if they are tought the principles step-by-step, as this is how i learned it. Please note: i am Not an expert at the one inch punch... and believe it could take a long time to master... but that doesnt mean a novice couldnt pull it off. Its the same sort of rule that can be applyed to any technique, you may be able to learn it, but it will take many repitions of the exercise to master it.

Top
#82709 - 05/06/05 10:45 PM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: Hachiman]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
This is why formalized systems always fail in incorporating this "technique" because it is not really a technique. This kind of awareness and sensitivtiy comes from intrinsic energy, if you formalize it and are able to do it quite well, it will probably not be very effective, even if you send someone flying back, that means NOTHING.People ask "how do you do it" and they want it in specifics, there is no way to do this, the only way to do this is by practicing internal arts, it is a way your body moves and learns that you are able to acquire this skill. The reason why is because there are countless ways for the body to generate this power, I will summarize some for you guys.

In fact, true fa jing shouldn't send them flying back, it should kill them or create an internal injury. In the case of Shaolin arts with these principles, it would break or destroy external bones, or shock the organs by rocking the physical structure.

Here is some a quick summary of some of the bases of some systems.

Taiji: by relaxing and realization that power comes from the whole body, initiated by the mind, one is able to easily have perfect body mechanics, added with concentrated mental intention to hit a specific target. Sensitivity and intrinsic training allow you to instantly sense ANY opening ANYWHERE in the body by either constant contact or quick observation. From ANY position immediately upon which the opening is seen/detected, your body explodes into your exposed opening. Wether this be your shoulder, elbow, knee, head, arm, fist, wrist etc. an entire shockwave will be sent through your body, from the the dan tien (hara) originating from the immediate signal from your mind, all the way down into the ground, back up into the waist, through the arms, into the hands (or whatever your striking with). A true master can create internal injuries even with just his shoulder. All of this in a split second of silk reeling energy.

Taijis is like a bamboo swaying in the wind, it absorbs only as much as it is given, and springs back both the combined force of the opponent and user.

Xingyi: Initiated the same way that taiji (from mind and dan tien), the back leg springs from the ground, the front leg stops and absorbs the momentum, in which the energy comes back up from the ground all the way to the waist and into the fist (or whatever your strikin with). Since countering and attacking are immediately linked together, you are using the opponents momentum (usually your grabbing him pulling him toward you) moving forward, as well as your momentum movign forward, combined with internal concentrated energy and full body power. Very deadly.

Bagua: Bagua teaches you how to also loosen and strengthen your body. From the conditioning (forms) your body becomes loose, and strengthen (chi) in the ligaments of your body. Bagua undulates, twists, compresses, and explodes. It is like an Iron sheet of metal being twisted until it gets white hot in the middle, and explodes. The body mechanics and footwork add to this of course.

Xingyi uses alot of leg compression, and expansaion. In more of a linear way, while Bagua does the same but from ankward positions, and angles. Taiji uses both, but the modern methods mostly incorporate pushing or Chin Na. True Taiji uses many, many strikes. They is to be relaxed, the compression is not done by tensing the physical muscles. Conditioning helps greatly, and is almost necessary if you want to discover the full potential. For the most part, all the training is for reaching an opening in your mind, in which then you are able to do the exact same with almost no form, and no movement. Real masters can push people far away, or strike, without barely moving because of this. They ARE moving and their whole body is still striking, but less becomes more.

Plz read this if you can. Thanks.

PS. The main ways are this, upwards, downwards, and straight. You see, once you realize the basics, and your body has a "feel" for it, you NEVER need to think about specifics again, your body AUTOMATICALLY moves and pushes t he way it should be. This is why too much thinking, and over-thinking it will only lead to average results, as opposed to being natural.The punch was not created by a Japanese master, or Bruce Lee. There is no one way to do it.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

Top
#82710 - 05/07/05 05:46 AM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: BaguaMonk]
Ace Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 101
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Just for arguements sake... Although i agree with most if not all you have said, this is delving more into Taiji than the wider spectrum of 'the one inch punch', and if we were goin to veer off the subject we could bring up other 'Arts; that attack internal areas, such as Chin Na or Dim Mak, although i 'think' you are not talking about the same sort of techniques... sorry, didnt see refrence to Chin Na, but these dont really jus incoperate explosive energy, they also have alot to do with manipulating muscles, ligments and joints, destroying 'vital' energy transfer in the target and breaking bones, and has more to do with pressuree point striking and grappeling using 'insert forgotten guaurd name here' to capture and destroy attacks. Or as far as my education in the 'style' goes anyway. The one inch punch is generally (although from your sources, obvouisly not) a technique that is used for making your opponent fly across the room, or it is atleast for the wing chun varient, and that is how it is 'taught' by all the grandmasters in Astralia, including current grandmaster William Cheung, but i do find your information interesting and would like to know your primary source.

Top
#82711 - 05/07/05 04:57 PM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: Ace]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
My primary source? Or are you talking to someone else? Me, it comes from gong fu experiences, and the internal arts.

If it wasn't for Shaolin there are alot of doors I would not have reached. For example, real Shaolin you use your entire body to strike someone, but it is based off sturdy rooting and angular attacks. We sat in horse stance every day for like 30 mins and just practiced the basic punches. Our alignment was the same one as Taiji or any other internal art: Wuyin channel tucked in (butt tucked in), toes gripping floor slightly, back straight, chest hollow, shoulders relaxed, toungue on roof of mouth, chin slightly tucked in, head suspended (aka straight line going through body), and breathing through abdomen. During punching elbows were relaxed, and shoulders too, we were taught to use only the power of the waist. As time progressed, my punches became explosive, fast, and my body shook, only because I trained and always gave it my all exactly to how I was taught. I believe I was the only one, eventually my legs started moving, I was corrected because they thought it was a result OF my punches. The truth is that my legs started shifting because they were one of the primary sources driving my punches forward, ala a bit more like Taiji.

I started taking Taiji, Xingyi, and Bagua later, all which work on the same basic principles and manifest them in different ways. I started reading many books, I've read all of bruce lees books, James Demilles, Yang Jwing Mings (some of the best out there), Wong Kiew Kit, etc. It was just like filling my soul (not necessarily my head) with knowledge, I was able to apply the base principles to my taiji, or any other art pretty easily.

I'm telling you, there is no one way to do it. And unless it might come from JKD schools, or WC schools that were learned from Bruce (james Demille), there is not just one way to do it. True Fa Jing is internal striking, you are not pushing them back, you are literally trying to kill them. The pushing back effect is something Taiji teachers can do with ease, even if they don't know how to use their art for fighting. It won't do you much good in a fight. It has to do damage.

WC emphasizes the one inch punch, because it is one of the best way to develop power in its punches. Without the full mobility of the waist and legs to generate power, you must be able to generate it at a very minute, and explosive level. That is why Bruce Lee abandoned WC, because in some ways after he had taken the art to his heart, and still used it at its core, it was too calculated, too precise, and too restrictive. I feel the same way about any gong fu art, but what I have learned from it, is amazing. Learning to fight WITH the art, exactly in the art, is the first step to this kind of freedom.

As for Chin Na and Dim Mak, it used to be the main power behind Dim Mak. Dim Mak used at an explosive, internal level, is probably the most dangerous, because the effects go all the way and disrupt the flow of blood, chi (whatever you want to call it). Chin Na, in the internal arts it is used, and is very effective. In Taiji for example, it relies on alot of twisting and bending just like any other, but not as much as clawing/pressing to disable using pressure points like gong fu. Once they are locked, you use this "one inch power" to break their arm with a sudden shaking of the body. Same thing, one objective, whole body moves. In Bagua you use the constant circular momentum to achieve this, while the "one inch power" can also be used. XingYi uses this "one inch power" almost exclusively in its chin na, but it is too dangerous to truly practice with this kind of energy in mind. Thats stuff you would do when you would of done in a chinese battlefield.

Just thought I'd fill some people in on Chinese Chin Na, some people just try to "lock" others out.....This is for the most part...inefective, unless you are using large joint manipulation (elbow arm bar for example). It is no wonder the BJJ community thinks standing chin na is ineffective, most people don't know how to apply it effectively enough. Usually, in gong fu there was not only "locking" but clawing/grabbing vital points, pressing, twisting, bending in different directions. Some people have rubber joints, but if you do it right there is no way they can excape. Using either the initial momentum obviously you can break their bones/tear ligaments quite easy (as was the ORIGINAL objective of these arts), but with explosive energy it can be done extremely easily. Shaolin masters would use this energy in a more external sense, and channel it to their finger tips while digging into a pressure point to cause severe pain. Woops I got carried away.


Edited by BaguaMonk (05/07/05 05:09 PM)

Top
#82712 - 05/08/05 05:57 AM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: BaguaMonk]
Ace Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 101
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thankyou, no you didnt get carried away, that was just what i wanted to hear, although im sorry if i wasnt clear about the one inch punch, i just presumed the person who started this thread was refering to the same type of punch i was. Although this is no longer on the subject, where do you learn Taiji, Xingyi, and Bagua, are they branches of a particular style? As for Shoalin, i also greatly admire and appreciate the many varied and useful techniques/ styles that have branched from it and are going to have the honour of training at the temple later this year... yes the real one, and on the JKD qoute, i do believe the philosophy behind it is that there is NO way to do a technique properly... its more an art of self expression (from the mouth of Bruce Himslef....) you are right though, there is no 'one' way to apply generation of power through biometrics/ Chi/ other, that would be a stupid thing to do, not to use an idea to its fullest extent, afterall, im sure there is a plethora of diffrent ways you could apply it.
As for your last paragraph, it was a little unclear, are you stating that people are critical of using Chin Na... its just its ALWAYS worked for me, so i presume you are talking from past experience...

Top
#82713 - 05/09/05 04:30 PM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: Ace]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Yes, many people, in particular the MMA community, seem to think standing Chin na is ineffective. As well as a plethora of other Traditional Martial arts and their principles. It is mostly based on misinformation for the lack of good schools, students, and teachers, but also on ignorance.

JKD is more of a principle/philosophy to me than anything. If I have learned anything, especially in the states, it is to keep learning, from different sources if necessary. Unless you have an incredible teacher (in all aspects), sometimes following one person for too long might actually inhibit your learning/training. You want to reach a higher level, not always stay below someone else's. A good teacher encourages surpassing him, and then moving on. Some just have so much to learn from, that leaving isn't an option though. Bruce, although a good person, was a little arrogant, and both me and alot of Traditionalist Gong fu practicioners think it was caused by improper chi gong/training methods (or drugs). I have known many karate students, and some gong fu (who learned from books etc.) literally become psychologically unstable from improper chi gong practice, in particular external/hard chi gong. They still retain their incredible intellect, power, fighting ability etc. but the reasoning and ways of solving problems change.

Back on topic, Xingyi, Bagua, and Taiji (or Tai Chi), are the three main internal arts. Xingyi is known as the son, Bagua as the sister, and Taiji as the mother, in respect to the way they function. There can be found small traces in these arts in karate, shaolin, etc. Xingyi works linearly (at least thats how it looks), and its power is very direct, and forward. Bagua uses Circular walking, and attacks the blind spots (they say akido derived from this) mostly using palm strikes, locks, throws, kicks, hardly any punches. Constantly twisting and spinning to learn how to deveop that sort of power and mobility. Taiji obviously is very popular here in the states, and everywhere, but mostly as a HEALTH exercise. In reality, it is perhaps the most deadly MA known to man (yeah I know ALL ma's are deadly when used properly), nowdays we see alot of pushing and occasionaly chin na in application practice. But its devastation really comes from its striking techniques, and ability to sense, trap, and easily explot imbalances (wether in defense, or stance) in opponents.

Karate Do's link to Taijiworld is actually Erle Montagiue's website, a known practicioner of Taiji and Bagua. Although I don't believe in trying to teach "fa jing" as seperate excercise, he goes into great detail discussing it.


Edited by BaguaMonk (05/09/05 04:35 PM)
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

Top
#82714 - 06/13/05 10:42 AM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: Hachiman]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I think the 1" punch is a fascinating strike but unlikely its a strike of oppurtunity that does not come often. The training it takes to develop such a strike (not the push) takes timing, breathing, cooridinations of relax, and soft flow body control is imperative. With head butts, elbows, forearms, knees available at this range the concentrated punch seems a unlikely, choice.

I've heard that the internal systems have a good grasp on this strike Hishing-I, Taichi, Baguwa, Silat and Kuntoa being a few systems that study this at Intermediate level/Jr. Instructor level. It is advance training in my Te system and I've yet to master the strike, all my advance students can do the phone book 1" punch demo "Push" ole I guess its a strike. But it doesn't really project like I felt the real masters of this technique do it.

I understand that the same Chi flow can be applied to any strike, and its not limited to the fist.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#82715 - 06/13/05 03:08 PM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: Neko456]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Yes Neko, exactly. I could care less about a fist. In Chin Na it was used to break/tear the bones/muscles after the arm was locked with a sudden violent shake. Or whenever you knock somebody off balance and your hands or unavailable you can use your hip/shoulders to knock them over. It also allows you to break holds in various different ways through explosive and sudden power.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

Top
#82716 - 06/14/05 09:22 AM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: BaguaMonk]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
take 2 people, train one person for 5 years on 1" punch - train the other for 5 with gyaku zuki.

Physics dictates which one will have a stronger punch.

'stronger' does not mean more effective since different strikes have their own place in space/time.

if you concentrate on how to do a perfect 1" punch, but don't know the appropriate time to use it, then it may be as useless as the other punchs you have neglected.

Top
#82717 - 06/14/05 10:54 AM Re: 1-inch punch vs. other punches [Re: Kintama]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Really the same Chi strike or full body flow strike can be applied with more devastating effect at full punching range, if you can hurts some one 1" away you will be a trully devastating puncher at a longer range.

Because really you are learning to transfer your full body weight/chi/energy into your strike at a shorter distance.

Its really the old lost art of strike the internal organs rather then striking the external parts of the body. In simple terms, Its done by focus and intent.

If done correct the reverse punch and the 1" punch is the same strike if the intent is to strike the liver then bruise his ribs.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
Page 5 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki, WhiteDragon11 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga