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#74865 - 03/08/04 01:31 PM Shoulder/rotator
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Puller or ripped something in my shoulder grappling about a month ago and still having lots of pain. Partner had me in an arm bar and I think he pulled alittle to hard and tore something. While fighting the other night I tried to do a spinning back fist and darn near went to my knees in pain. Talked with a sports rehab guy from the gym and he told me to do "very light" over head weights and shoulder work to rebuild the muscle...?

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#74866 - 03/08/04 01:38 PM Re: Shoulder/rotator
NancyP Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 119
Loc: Florida
Schanne,

I'd suggest you also consult with an Ortho and get an MRI to find out exactly, if anything, is wrong, and then take corrective action. Even "very light" overhead work may aggravate it more, and possibly do more damage.

NancyP

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#74867 - 03/08/04 04:44 PM Re: Shoulder/rotator
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
I just spent three solid months rehabbing a shoulder injury. I am told it takes about six months to fully recover from something like this, and that any mistakes can send you back to square one. If it gets bad enough, you can need surgery-- followed by that same six month recovery you were trying to scrimp on to begin with. Be careful.

Anyway, enough gloom and doom-- the advice to do "light overhead work" does not jive with what my doctor and physical therapist told me. The first step was to identify the range of motion I could make with ZERO pain. They both stressed repeatedly that if something caused pain I should avoid doing it. My doctor did not place much value on the MRI as a diagnostic tool compared to physical assesment and the doctor moving my arm and shoulder feeling for any binding points or "crunching". He was of the opinion that the MRI as good as it is does not show soft tissue damage all that well unless it is extreme enough to require surgery, in which case he would use an MRI for pre-surgery strategizing, so he didn't see any reason to do one except as a pre-surgery step.

I was given exercises to do with extremely low resistance in the comfortable range of motion-- three sets of 20 to 30 reps every day twice a day. After a couple of weeks of this, we started to increase the range of motion. After about two months we started adding weight and reducing the reps. I am three months in and getting better every day but still not 100%, I also take anti-inflammatories almost every day. Before deciding to go to rehab I took a month off to rest with no result-- anti-inflammatories are important because your shoulder muscles can actually swell enough to cause damage (which leads to more swelling in a vicious cycle-- this is why you should avoid painful movements.) A shoulder injury cannot be "worked through" as other injuries sometimes can.

Best move-- talk to a doctor or physical therapist who works in sports medicine and get a thorough shoulder assessment. The sports medicine part is important because as a martial artist you stress your shoulder in ways that most folks don't.

Failing that, strenghtening the rotator cuff muscles is the right answer, but you have to be extremely careful how you go about it or you can make things much worse very quickly. The pain you are experiencing sounds similar to mine-- I collapsed simply taking my shoe off once. In my case acromonial impingement and joint instability were the main culprits. If you've spent a lot of time getting your arms yanked on (arm bars, etc) it is likely you are on the same road.

Good luck!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#74868 - 03/08/04 07:05 PM Re: Shoulder/rotator
joesixpack Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 2282
Loc: Australia
You can get surgery which is invasive, but has a very high success rate and has improved since the procedure began. I beleive they shorten a ligament or something like that. I am not a doctor so don't quote me, saw it on discovery channel.

That's if it's not the muscle which is the problem.

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#74869 - 03/09/04 09:13 AM Re: Shoulder/rotator
the504mikey Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 790
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Joe,

I know a few people who have had the surgery and all of them say the same things:

1. The recovery is a long painful process. (Imagine putting your shirt on becoming a painful half hour struggle.)

2. The end result is WONDERFUL in terms of comparison to how things were before the surgery.

I see surgery as something which has a high return although the initial investment in pain and downtime is very high. I am not sure anyone I talked to has had the "newest of the new" laproscopic procedures. For now, I am trying to stabilize the joint by building muscles to do the job the ligaments should be doing but aren't. With that, I will probably always need to handle certain movements carefully, but I really put surgery solidly in the "last resort" camp, especially since I live by myself and wouldn't have anyone around to help with the recovery. I am probably more averse to surgical solutions than a lot of people are, though.

Anyway, thanks for the information.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#74870 - 03/09/04 02:41 PM Re: Shoulder/rotator
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Thanks for all your help, damit, I hate going to the doctors. No more grappling for me until my shoulder is better. MRI oh boy. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

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#74871 - 04/29/04 07:23 AM Re: Shoulder/rotator
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by schanne:
Thanks for all your help, damit, I hate going to the doctors. No more grappling for me until my shoulder is better. MRI oh boy. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Shoulder still not better, time to go to the doctor! Yes I'm a big baby when it comes to doctors.

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#74872 - 04/29/04 10:21 AM Re: Shoulder/rotator
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Try www.martial-arts-fitness.com and look at the '7 minute rotator cuff solution' It's a fantastic book and above all it will inform you in a fairly easy way how your shoulder works.

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#74873 - 04/29/04 10:59 AM Re: Shoulder/rotator
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
[QUOTE]Originally posted by UKfightfreak:
Try www.martial-arts-fitness.com and look at the '7 minute rotator cuff solution' It's a fantastic book and above all it will inform you in a fairly easy way how your shoulder works.[/QUOTE]

UK, Thank You
I'm going to try the book first before the MRI and all doctor stuff.

Daaammmm....the book on Amazon cost $180.00??!!

[This message has been edited by schanne (edited 04-29-2004).]

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#74874 - 04/30/04 07:34 AM Re: Shoulder/rotator
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Wow!

I got my copy for 20 (about $35).

If you are buying from the states you could get it from http://www.healthforlife.com/shadow/secure-health-for-life/html/rotcuff.html

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