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#7099 - 05/18/04 09:37 PM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi Ronin/Jeff,

Thanks for the correction, I didn't take the time to check out the issue and was just going from memory, guess I'm faulty at that.

Isshinryu like many systems has spawned many variations so Isshin Shorinji ryu and Isshin Kempo are likely only a bit of what's out there. I seem to recall there is even somebody who has a combined Isshinryu TKD group.

But in all cases the only thing that truly seem to matter is how effective you become with whatver you work.

Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu

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#7100 - 05/22/04 09:31 AM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Anonymous
Unregistered


You might try asking Sensei Sklar. I met him at a motorcycle ride in Orlando, FL.

David Sklar

Started Training 1976
7th Dan - Isshin Shjorin Ji Ryu Okinawa Te
Owner Bushido Karate School in Orlando, FL

Contact: David Sklar
Phone: 407-897-6856
Email: info@kickusa.com
Website: www.kickusa.com

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#7101 - 04/07/05 11:20 PM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Anonymous
Unregistered


martialpunk was correct that this style was founded by Robert Murphy.

I studied Isshin Shorinjiryu under Thomas Heriaud at the Academy of Martial Arts in Plano, Illinois, back in the 1980s, where I earned a ni-kyu. I still train, though it's been at least fifteen years since I've made it back for instruction.

Mister Heriaud was one of Mister Chapman's students. I hear Mister Heriaud is mostly retired from teaching, but that he does still serve as chief judge for the Midwest Circuit karate-tournament organization. He was a peerless teacher.

The following are from the handouts we received from Mister Heriaud:

Okinawa-Te
ORIGINS AND PURPOSE
Okinawa-Te (Karate) was developed through the assimilation and modification of Chuan-fa (Chinese fist arts) by the Okinawans, and incorporation of these with existing fighting methods previously adapted from various Asian martial arts.
Among the various Chuan-fa styles, the one that had the greatest impact on the development of both Chinese and Okinawan fist technique was Shaolin-szu Gung-fu.
This system is thought to have been based on a series of exercises taught by Bodhi Dharma, the Twenty-eighth Patriarch of Buddhism under Sakyamuni, and founder of the Ch'an Sect, commonly known as Zen Buddhism This system was further expanded and developed by the Warrior Monks of Shaolin Monastary.
The original concepts taught by Bodhi Dharma were contained in two volumes on Indian military arts, the I Chin Ching and Hsein Sui Ching, which he brought with him when he journeyed to China in the sixth century A.D.
These principles combined with the existing "Five Animal Forms" became the Shaolin-szu Gung-fu system. Although other Chuan-fa existed before the Shaolin-szu system, it was this system which became most widely practiced. Its growth, in part, can be paralleled by and attributed to the spread of the Ch'an Sect's teachings.
There were two schools of thought concerning individual combat, the External or Hardfist school, noted for aggressive attack technique, and the Internal sohool, noted for fluid defensive technique, and non-aggressive philosophy. The Shaolin-szu Gung-fu originally was of the former type.
As the art spread, it also changed. Lifestyles, terrain, and other military arts were fused with the original by various masters in their travels. Two distinct styles evolved. The Northern style emphasized the use of leg techniques and the Southern style emphasized the use of hand techniques,
There is no way to determine when the Chuan-fa systems were imparted to Okinawa. The Okinawans were under the cultural influence of China for some four-hundred years before the Japanese invasion in 1609 and paid tribute to the Ming rulers (1368–1644) during which time trade and the exchange of ideas and methods flourished.
What we do know is that in 1429 Lord Syo Hasshi succeeded in uniting the three Kingdorns of Okinawa by force, and that the military arts were highly regarded at that time. It can be assumed that both the Northern and Southern styles reached Okinawa, but it was the Southern style that found favor. This presents the possibility that Chuan-fa may have reached Okinawa during the period of Mongol rule (1260–1368).
During the (Northern) Sung Dynasty the capitol of China was Kai-feng in Ronan province, but with the conquest of Northern China by the Chin Tartars in 1127 the capitol was moved south to Hang Chou in Chekiang province, and so began the Southern Sung Dynasty. 1205 Genghis Khan began his ruthless campaigns which led to the establishment of the Yuan Dynasty (1260–1368) under Kublai Khan, and complete rule over north and south with the overthrow of the Sung accomplished in 1279.
Shaolin-szu Gung-fu, almost from its inception, became associated with political and self-defense societies, and in fact it was political pressure that caused the dispersion of the monks and the eventual decline of the Shaolin Monastary. During the early Yuan period, while the Sung controlled Southern China, the Hanlin-ji monastary, considered by some to be the second Shaolin-szu, where Chuan-fa was practiced, amassed 150,000 warriors and rose against Yuan rule. The rebellion was unsuccessful and the warriors were scattered. It is highly possible that as the Mongols drove south and finally conquered the Southern Sung capitol, which was close to the sea, many Chuan-fa experts sought sanctuary in other lands, one of which was Okinawa. Whatever the case, the facts on the migration of early Chuan-fa will remain vague.
On Okinawa, "Shaolin-szu Chuan-fa" was called by its Japanese equivalent, "Shorinji Kenpo." It is impossible to state exactly when Shorinji Kenpo became Okinawa-Te, but over the years the techniques took on Okinawan characteristics and were completely transformed, retaining little resemblance to the original Chinese forms.
A Te-like form was being practiced during the first demilitarization period (1430–1525). It is believed that this was the original import undergoing its first stage of revision. But it was during the second demilitarization period, beginning with the Japanese invasion by the Satsyna Clan in 1609, that Okinawa-Te emerged as a highly refined fighting art particular to the Okinawans and developed by their efforts.
The need for a highly specialized attack technique arose with tile subjegation of the Okinawan people by the Satsyna Clan Shimoza Satsuma, to guard against rebellion., confiscated everything resembling a weapon and forbade the ownership, manufacture, or import of weapons. Te spread rapidly underground and was taught and practiced secretly. This veil of secrecy accounts for the lack of factual information about its development. Even during this period when Te was in use, the only testimony to its existence was the statistics on the invaders that fell victim to its practitioners.
Originally the art was simply referred to as "Te." Gradually, as the system spread through Okinawa, the name of the town where the master resided and taught was affixed., such as: Shuri-Te, Naha-Te, and Tomari-Te. These particular towns were well known for their Te fighters, and in fact were the cradles of Okinawa-Tel
As other masters began teaching the different groups came to be called "ryus" (style or school) and were usually named after the teachers of the ryu, such as, Kobayashi-ryu, Metobu-ryu, etc. This method identified the practitioner with a particular master.
Contrary to popular belief, Student-masters did rot break away from their Masters to start new systems, but simply began teaching away from the central school as the demand for instruction increased, and normally with the approval, and in many cases at the request of their masters. Names came into use simply as a method of identification, as one would state his city and state rather than just his country when asked where he lives. Although many ryus developed, the differences were few, as the techniques in most cases were simply stylized by the individual masters. Where new technique did exist, it was soon assimulated by the various ryus.
Very little factual information is available on the early Te masters or methods. As stated previously, the Okinawans adapted the External or Hardfist method of Shaolin-szu Chuan-fa as the most practical for their needs, and this gave birth to Okinawa-Te. Later in its development it split into two approaches to the application of technique. There was little emphasis on this until masters
Anhou Itosu and Kanruo Higaonna developed them into two distinct schools of thought. Their schools came to be known as Shorin and Shorei.
Both of these masters were students of Warrior-Master Sokan Matsumura.
Matsumura is now considered to be the patriarch of Okinawa-Te, and is probably the man most responsible for the organization of the various techniques under a single ryu
It is with Sokan Matsumura that the factual history of Okinawa Te begins. Matsumura was noted to be a Samurai of exceptional skill in all military arts, and especially in the fist arts. He was retained by Sakugawa of Shari during the late 18th century. His position and reputation afforded him opportunities to study with many of the Te masters as well as the Chinese masters residing in Okinawa. Because of this we may assume that his knowledge of the existing methods was broader than others of his day. Due to his knowledge and skill, many practitioners sought his instruction. Two of these were to become more famous than their master. They were Itosu and Higaonna .
They went on to spread the teachings of their master, although their methods differed from his as well as from one another's. The differences probably came about naturally due to differences in physique and structure. Regardless, it was with these man that systemized training and style began.
The teachings of Master Itosu evolved into the Shorin school. Its students trained for speed and agility. The preference was toward flexible defenses, evasion, subtle changes in position, and long-range attacks using rapid combinations of technique. Their technique was based on the theory of the katas Naiuhanchi, Ku San Ku and Chinto.
The teachings of Master Higaonna evolved into the Shorei school. Its students trained for great muscular strength, and preferred direct blocks, little change in position, and strong crushing attacks launched at close range, usually holding on to their adversaries. Their technique was based on the theory of the katas Sanchin and Seiuchin.
Though the Shorei school in its pure form was short-lived due to its lack of flexibility, both masters developed many excellent students who went on to expand, refine, and spread the teachings. Some studied both schools; others journeyed to China to continue their research under well known masters of Chuan-fa.
From the Itosu school came Choku Motobu, who taught a variation which came to be known as Motoburyu Naha-Te. The he Itosu school also produced Chojun Miyagi, who combined principles of the Internal Chuan-fa system, which he studied in Fukien province during a two year stay in China, with the Shorei methods to found the Goju system. Goju eventually replaced the original Shorei. This school was the first to introduce a marriage of Hard and Soft, based on the Theory of Sanchin and Tensho katas. Master Miyagi is generally credited with the creation of both katas, but it is likely that he created only the Tensho, after a sojourn to China, based on a variation of the Sil Lum Praying Mantis Chuan-fa method, and revised the Sanchin kata. With the exception of Miyagi, these masters gained fame through the introduction of their ryus to Japan.
During this time there were masters of equal or greater skill on Okinawa whose fame cannot be credited to Japanase influence, but who deserve rocognition if one is to understand the growth of Karate.
We do not know who first referred to "Okinawa-Te" as "Karate." It was with the introduction of the art to Japan that the name took hold. The art was first introduced to Japan in 1917 by Master Funakoshi, who came art the request of the Japanese government. After a demonstration of the art he returned to Okinawa only to come back in 1921, at which time he took up residence and began teaching in Waseda University. Shortly thereafter Masters Miyagi, Maburi and Motobu introduced their styles.
Although Karate was demonstrated in Los Angeles California by Norimichi Yabe in 1920, it was not until the early 1950s that formal instruction was given in the U.S. Credit for this must be given to Master Tsutomu Oshima, a student of Master Funakoshi. Through his efforts the Shotokan Karate system established a firm base in America.
Overseas, the ban on martial arts training imposed by General Douglas McArthur was lifted, exposing U.S. servicemen to the training. In the late 1950s and early 1960s many returned and opened small training halls across the country.
In 1963 and again in 1965 Okinawan Grand Master Shimabuku Tatsuo visited the U.S. to give instructions to his followers.
Master Shimabuku began his study under his uncle, a well known master of Shuri-Te, and spent the rest of his life in the study and teachings of Okinawa-Te. For twenty-six years he studied various styles. From his uncle's tutelage he went on to study Kobayashiryu under Master Chotuku Kiyan and Naha-Te under Choku Motobu. He then turned to Goju system and Master Chojun Miyagi. In both the Shorin and Goju systems Master Shimabuku was awarded 8th Dan for his outstanding skill and knowledge.
During World War II Shimabuku Tatsuo’s reputation as a master of Okinawa-Te caused the Japanese occupation forces to take him into custody and force him to teach. It was during this period that he formulated the methods which later came to be known as Isshinryu.
He decided to combine certain aspects of the various systems which he found most practical for his own use, and discarded those which were not suited to his physical structure and concepts of combat. He chose certain forms of the Goju system, but the basis in both form and performance is the Kobayashi Shorin system. He also incorporated the most advanced Bojutsu systems, which he studied under Masters Hirara Shinken and Yabe Kumoden. The outstanding features of his system were the exclusive use of the short vertical fist punch and the rapid delivery of technique in combination.
In 1957 Master Don Nagle, a student of Master Shimabuku, began teaching Isshinryu Karate in the U.S. Of his original students, four of his most promising went on to spread the system in the East and Midwest: James Chapman, Ryzard Neimeira, Robert Murphy and Gary Alexander.
Master Murphy began his study of the martial arts, with JuJutsu and Judu, as a member of the U.S. Marine Corps in 1954. His interest in the martial arts led him to seek a greater understanding of the underlying principles and philosophies through the study of various arts and systems: Tang Soo Do, Hung Shaolin Gung-fu, Baa Hak Pai Chuan-fa, Shorinjiryu, Aikijutsu, and several Robujutsu systems. In 1965 he was awarded Fourth Dan, and in 1967 Fifth Dan by Master Nagle. In 1969 Master Shimabuku awarded him master’s certification in Isshinryu Karate and Kobujutsu arts. In 1962 he resigned as Director of the Isshando Karate Association to open his own training halls, the Academies of Martial Arts in North Bergen, Weehawken, and Hoboken, N.J.
Master Murphy became Headmaster of the International Institute of Judo and Karate in 1965 and held that post until 1970. He also joined the faculty of the College of Saint Elizabeth and Fairieigh Dickinson University and established two of the largest karate groups in the U.S. In these and in Middlesex County College, Karate has become an accredited course of study. Since Master Murphy organized Karate International in 1965, institutions throughout the state have recognized the value of martial arts training and have accepted programs under his supervision. At St. Joseph's High School in Metuchen, N.J., for the first time in the U.S., varsity and junior varsity letters were presented to students participation in Karate training. The coaches' and outstanding Athlete Awards were also given to members of the club.
Karate International Incorporated was organized for the purpose of training professional instructors, standardizing training and sport competition methods, and expanding teaching capabilities to encompass all Asian studies and to accommodate educational, recreational, and business establishments, thereby benefiting all levels of society.
Master Murphy established his main training hall in Parsippany, New Jersey in 1970, the largest facility of its kind on the East coast, and entirely designed and built by his students.
In 1968, based on the evaluation of his various studies, Master Murphy founded the system of Isshin-Shorinjiryu Okinawa-Te. This is a discipline based on the consolidation of various bodies of knowledge about the Asian arts, and is recognized as one of the more fully developed methods of teaching, allowing a student to fully assimilate the broadened scope of knowledge and techniques of various styles.
After the formulation of the Isshin-Shorinji system, Masters James Chapman and Ralph Cherico of the Isshinryu system found Master Murphy's concepts of training and philosophy to be more in keeping with the true goals of the ancient masters and joined with him and Master Leo Weber in spreading those concepts.
Master Chapman was a close friend and associate of Master Murphy from early training days. He also assisted in the formation of the Academies of Martial Arts and the Society of Black Belts of America. Master Chapman opened an Academy branch in Aurora, Illinois in 1963 and sponsored both the Illinois State Championships and the Tri-State Tournament. Master Chapman lost his life in an auto accident in the spring of 1971, a blow to the Karate world.
In 1965 Masters Cherico and Murphy met while training with Master Shimabuku. In 1957 Master Cherico, well known for his tournament participation and fair judging, converted to Isshin-Shorinji, and became a staff instructor of Karate International in 1970 and Regional Supervisor in 1971.
Master Weber was a student of JuJutsu until he met Master Murphy in 1961. From that day on an unwavering friendship developed. Credit for the realization of many of the hopes of Master Murphy can be given to him, as he laid the foundation for the development of Karate International Incorporated, and became its first Vice President.
In 1971, Isshin Shorinjiryu Okinawa-Te was incorporated as a fraternal order guided by a board of trustees and elected officers from the membership, whose purpose is to guide the system according to its philosophy: Harmony of Principle, Integrity in Purpose, and Mutual Benefit.
Master Murphy feels that in a time of turmoil and uncertainty, people need a deeper understanding of themselves. He hopes Isshin-Shorinjiryu will give direction to that quest. It is easily seen that Karate was more than a were method of defending one's self. It is a demonstration of life as it could be and life as it should be, harmonizing elements of violent struggle with simple beauty and peace .
Karate is a scale of individual achievement, a very personal art which offers a great deal for those who have the foresight to seek it out.

Isshin Shorinji Ryu
Okanawa Te
Belt Requirements

Yellow Belt (Seventh Kyu/Sichi Kyu)
kata kiai
eight-point soft block n/a
fourteen-point hard block n/a
Taikyoku Ichi Third punch, second set of three punches
Taikyoku Ni Third punch, second set of three punches
Taikyoku San Third punch, second set of three punches

Yellow Belt (Sixth Kyu/Roku Kyu)
kata kiai
Taikyoku Shi Last punch in punch-push-punch set
Taikyoku Go Grab and punch after elbow strike

Green Belt (Fifth Kyu/Go Kyu)
kata kiai
Pinan Ichi Last lunge punch; Last knife hand
Pinan Ni Spear hand; Last high block and punch
Pinan San Spear hand; Last backfist

Purple Belt (Fourth Kyu/Yan Kyu)
kata kiai
Pinan Shi Backfist; Knee strike
Pinan Go High cross block and punch; Leap into hook stance

Brown Belt (Third Kyu/San Kyu)
kata kiai
Sanchin-Dai Last single punch after second turn
Sanseru Last pickup technique

Brown Belt (Second Kyu/Ni Kyu)
kata kiai
Seisan First backfist from cat stance;
Before executing front kick from cat
Seiunchin Vertical punch; First backfist
Second uppercut; Last backfist
Nijushio First elbow; Punch to prone opponent
Under punch; Last U-punch

Brown Belt (First Kyu/I Kyu)
kata kiai
Naiuhanchi Ichi Last block and punch
Naiuhanchi Ni First release or throw
Naiuhanchi San Last backfist
Jute Third palm heel; Last cross block and side block
Last eye and throat strike

Black Belt (First Dan/Shodan)
kata kiai
Wansu Fake punch; First punch set; Elbow strike
Shiho-Hi Second punch to prone opponent
First fake punch
Second hammer block and side kick

********************************************************************************

When I moved to SIU in Carbondale, Illinois, I met a black belt named Scott Vogt who trained under one of Mister Murphy's students, and Scott gave me the following, which I've subsequently found online (though I can't remember the URL). I've edited out some of the material because I can't verify it, adding ellipses where I cut material, and placing my comments in brackets. The opinions expressed below are not mine.

OKINAWA TE
An Historical Overview
Mr. Woodrow Jensen was trained by Sensei Robert Murphy in Parsippany, New Jersey. The rank of second-degree black belt was conferred by Sensei Murphy in August of 1971. Third-degree rank was conferred by Douglas Hodges of Karate Institute in September of 1976. The last promotion was more of a generic promotion in karate, rather than for a specific karate system.
Further promotion by Sensei Murphy was not possible due to a series of events which occurred within the system of Isshin Shorinji Ryu Okinawa Te over a period of about six years starting in 1972. To put these events in perspective, this historical overview will follow the instructional careers of both Sensei Robert Murphy and Woodrow Jensen.
Master Robert Murphy was awarded the rank of 5th degree black belt in Isshin Ryu by Master Don Nagle (8th degree) and Master Tatsuo Shimabuku (10th degree) Sensei Murphy and Master James Chapman (5th degree Isshin Ryu) of Chicago, Illinois, formed and developed the style of Isshin Shorinji Ryu Okinawa Te in 1968. This style added to the Isshin Ryu materials, techniques, and strategies borrowed from a variety of other martial art systems to include: Jujutsu, Judo, Tang Soo Do, Hung Shaolin Gung-fu, Baa Hak Pai Chuan-fa Shorinjiryu, Aikijutsu, and Kobujutsu arts.
Karate basic technique performance closely follows the style of technique execution as illustrated by the work of Nishiyama and Brown in the book, Karate: The Art of Empty Hand Fighting .
Isshin Shorinji Ryu prospered in the period of 1969–71. It had an enrollment of about 210-plus active Karateka and 25–30 black belts...

The main dojo was closed in Parsippany, New Jersey.... For the next few years, up until about 1978, there were various school locations with none really succeeding financially. As of 1980 there was no active school or system.

[I believe that Mister Heriaud and another of Mister Chapman's students each were actually teaching at the time, Mister Heriaud at the Aurora YMCA and his fellow student, whose name I can't remember, at the Fox Valley South Family YMCA. Mister Heriaud eventually took over instructional duties at both schools. Apparently there was a schism in the style and Mister Jensen was not aware of Mister Heriaud's schools.]

In 1973, Mr. Jensen moved from New Jersey to attend graduate school at the University of Wyoming. A karate club named Okinawa Te was started in January 1974. An attempt was made to reestablish ties with Sensei Murphy and the Isshin Shorinji Ryu system, but the... ties with Isshin Shorinji were dissolved....
Mr. Jensen took the old Isshin Shorinji Ryu grade requirements and modified them slightly. This became the basis for Okinawa Te as it was taught at the University of Wyoming from 1973–78 During the years 1977–78, a partnership between Mr. Jensen and Douglas D. Hodges was initiated. It was an attempt to strengthen Okinawa Te by establishing ties with the national organization of Karate Institute and to draw upon Sensei Hodges's kill and expertise in Judo, combat strategy, and competitive karate. In pursuing their separate professional careers, only partial success was achieved in development of Okinawa Te. Career opportunities resulted in the separation of these two individuals.
Mr. Jensen has published the following articles: "How to Start a Karate Club on Campus," Black Belt, April 1977; "What to Expect If You Take a Karate Course In College, " Black Belt, April 1977; " Retention of New Students a Formula for a Beginner's Program," Karate Illustrated, July 1977; and "The Hard Way, How to Judge Kata," Karate Illustrated, February 1978.
As part of the masters degree requirements in physical education at the University of Wyoming, a thesis was completed entitled: Curriculum Content for Introductory Karate Courses in Physical Education at Selected Four-Year Colleges and Universities in the United States.
In January of 1979 Mr. Jensen left the University of Wyoming for employment in Rapid City, South Dakota. Administration and instruction of the Okinawa Te Karate Club was turned over the Mr. Rod Lindgren. The current instructor is Mr. Joseph Hageman. Mr. Hageman started in Mr. Jensen's original beginners' class of 1974. He became the Okinawa Te instructor in the Fall of 1979 and has done an excellent job of both programming and expanding enrollment. Mr. Jensen currently serves the Okinawa Te Karate Club in an advisory capacity and as an aid in grade certification.

Woodrow Jensen’s Okinawa Te Belt Requirements
Kyus
Pinan I-V
Naiuhanchi I-III
Seisan
Sanchin
Seiunchin
Shiho-Hi

Dans
Wansu
Kusanku-Dai
Gankaku-Dai
Bo
Jo

********************************************************************************
There is one active Isshin Shorinjiryu dojo of which I know, under Scott Francis, a terrific student of Mister Heriaud's. His website appears to be still under construction:
http://www.dojodynamics.com

Here's a page belonging to another of Mister Heriaud's students, Dave Carr:
http://members.aol.com/dccarr724

I hope this helps! Please let me know if you need more information; if I have it, I'll pass it along.

[This message has been edited by Chris Wissmann (edited 04-08-2005).]

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#7102 - 04/07/05 11:29 PM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Anonymous
Unregistered


China’s Shaolin Temple is generally credited as the root of many contemporary Chinese Martial Arts. Its influence was so extensive that even present day Japanese Karate may owe its existence to Shaolin Monks.

Many people claim Okinawan Karate systems developed from Chinese Martial Arts, primarily Shaolin styles. Since Japan borrowed its empty-hand Karate from Okinawa, it’s reasonable to assume the Shaolin Temple was behind it all. If that’s the case, why doesn’t today’s Karate reflect the fighting style and techniques of Shaolin Marital Arts? Maybe a look at one of Japan’s few remaining traditional Karate systems will reveal the answer.

The system’s name, Shorinji, means “Shaolin Temple”, a reference to its Chinese origins. When you know the concepts of Japan’s Shorinji-Ryu Karate system, you’ll see the connection with China’s Shaolin Martial Arts.

Shorinji is different from other Karate styles because its basic premise is to first evade the enemy’s attack. Shorinji stylists try to avoid any direct countering blocks and instead, like some Chinese practitioners evade, counterstrike, and apply a submission technique such as a joint lock or throw. A Shorinji practitioner’s most common defense is getting out of the way of an oncoming attack, rather than stopping it with forceful power blocks. After that he may follow with a counter blow that leads to a submission technique such as a choke or pressure point manipulation.

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#7103 - 04/08/05 02:37 AM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chris Whismann,

the history on development of toudi, in detail the shorei and shorin lineages and their specific history has a lot of errors.
Higaonna was never a student of Matsumura, he studied with Seisho Aragaki, Kojo and Wai xin xiang, RyuRyu Ko possibly Iwah and Ason in China. Miyagi was never a student of Itosu, only of Higaonna and Seisho Aragaki (I think you mixed him up with Mabuni, who was a student of both Itosu and Higaonna).
The shorei tradition did not die out but lives in styles like Goju ryu/Uechi ryu/Ruyei ryu.
The mariage of hard and soft is inherent to all karate, not just Goju or Shorei.
The renaming of Toudi to Karate was decided in Okinawa in 1936 at the meeting of the masters on request of the Japanese.

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#7104 - 04/08/05 08:43 AM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Anonymous
Unregistered


I didn't author the above posts, except for the introductory and concluding comments and one interior note; one was a handout provided to me by my instructor and another by a friend's instructor who shared origins in Isshin Shorinjiryu. (I did, however, clean up a few typos.)

Both seem written with an agenda.

The first tries to make Isshin Shorinjiryu the culmination of all the arts that came before it, and it's grandiose to say the least. I believe it was written in the 1970s, though I don't know for sure, and I don't know who the author is. I later found large segments of it in a book I read in high school, though I cannot remember who wrote the book— for some reason I think it was by Mas Oyama, but it could have been Ginchin Funakoshi. Since there were few contemporaneous written records about early karate and not many research sources available when this handout was probably written, disputes about the handout's accuracy may be valid, and I'm glad you brought a few potential mistakes to my attention. Someday I hope to look into them more thoroughly. I've met a few Shorei stylists, so that statement in the first handout I know is incorrect.

The second handout, which I posted in edited form, provides reasons for Mister Jensen's split with Mister Murphy. I removed some of those parts from this post because I felt they were potentially libelous; they certainly are one-sided, and I have no way to reach either party for more information or verification. Hopefully, those who know more will see the posts and offer their comments— I, for one, would like to know more about this art that has been so important to me for more than half my life.

[This message has been edited by Chris Wissmann (edited 04-08-2005).]

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#7105 - 04/08/05 02:15 PM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Good Afternoon Chris:

I would love to chat with you here or off list whichever you prefer... (assuming you are interested of course) about that art, Mr. Murphy, etc.

When time allows,
Jeff

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#7106 - 04/14/05 07:39 PM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Anonymous
Unregistered


To reinforce something that I may not have made clear: I didn't author much of what I posted above. Those were handouts I received, not my own writings. I cleaned up a few typos, but otherwise contributed nothing to them except for introductory remarks and one bit that I enclosed in brackets.

The first handout was obviously written by a proponent of Isshin Shorinjiryu and a fan of Mister Murphy. Though the handout implies that Isshin Shorinjiryu keeps everything worthwhile and all it discards is worthless— making it the ultimate martial art— I don't buy that Isshin Shorinjiryu or any style is necessarily better or worse than any other. When I read it, I keep the obvious bias of the uncredited author in mind.

The second handout, from which I deleted quite a bit of material, details some of the reasons for a falling out between Mister Murphy and Mister Jensen— or at least one side's explination for the falling out. I didn't post parts that used subjective terms and made certain allegations about Mister Murphy, because I couldn't verify them, and felt that posting them might appear libelous, or at least irresponsible. I did come across it online a few months ago, but didn't save the URL and haven't been able to find it since. Anyway, all I wanted to do was offer what I was given, and I hope that in doing so I did no disrespect to Mister Murphy.

Anyway, I moved to Carbondale in 1987, about six hours from where I grew up and took classes from Mister Heriaud. My parents moved into Chicago proper in about 1990 or 1991, so it's been about fifteen years since I've attended a class, though I continue to work out three to five days a week on my punching bag or doing kata on my patio. Once in a great while I'll Google Isshin Shorinjiryu, but very rarely find anything, and even more rarely anyting of substance. This FightingArts thread was one of the first productive hits I've found.

I hope anyone with more information about Isshin Shorinjiryu will contact me on or off-board; I'd love to to learn more!

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#7107 - 04/14/05 08:57 PM Re: Isshin Shorinji Ryu System
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
bump

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