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#140045 - 07/13/06 04:38 AM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: Mike_L]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
It is my opinion that there are two types of martial arts in korean. One being taekwondo/tang soo do and the other being hapkido. Hapkido ocourse is almost exactly like daito ryu aikijutsu. Many of the masters of the original kwans had knowledge of the same martial art, so no matter wat they called their scholl or art, they were all still teaching the same art. Ofcourse every master add's in their own bit of flavor, but generally all the striking arts were the same. Tang Soo Do has the same exact techniques as taekwondo go figure... To me having been a practitioner of both and havin seen students from both "styles" I would say the ony differences is the way the techniques are executed. This ofcourse is probably the major difference between the ITF and WTF "styles" of taekwondo. Although now it is widely accepted that the WTF "style" is now geared towards sports; moving away from it's practical self defense applications and focussing on competative sparring. However, there are still schools affiliated with the WTF who are not sports orientative at all and still practice TKD purely for self defense purposes.
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da

#140046 - 07/15/06 10:55 AM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: MattJ]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Very good information!

Would it be possible to have this e-mailed to me at:

Also, there were originally 2 KTAs. General Choi was vice president, then president. That group fell apart. It was not till 1965 that he (Mr. Choi) was elected as president of what is now considered the real KTA.
The ITF moved from Seoul, Korea to Toronto, Canada in 1972, not 1974. Later on, in 1985 it again moved to Vienna, Austria, a neutral country, that would allow greater access to the communist & socialists nations of the world. It was General Choi's dream to spread & teach TKD to everyone, regardless of ethnicity, race, religion, creed, nationality or politics. He was very successful.

#140047 - 12/18/06 04:03 AM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: trevek]
Katana83 Offline
Foreign Exchange Pimp

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 71

The article looks great, but wouldn't have been better put in the articles of It's a bit hard to read here.

Anyway, tremendous work. Well done!

My first question would be about the pancration. If this is possibly a basis for many Asian arts, then why are forms of foot fighting rather rare in Europe?

I think that you bring up a good point. If the asian martial arts do come from greece, then wouldn't eastern and western martial arts be nearly identical? I guess that what started out in greece went east and merged with the culture and indigenous fighting styles to form entirely new systems. Whatever remained in the west evolved and fused with both hellenistic/gothic styles and cultural influences being brought in from various other cultures such as the middle eastern styles/cultures and also formed entirely new systems. Perhaps this could be a reason that eastern and western styles are so different. However, history is not exact when it comes to these matters. Just as a case is being made for asian martial arts having an origin in pankration/pancratium, there is also a case being made that what the greeks and romans used actually came from africa/egypt. There are hieroglyphics that depict boxing, wrestling, and even fencing styles that predate their european practice by many centuries. They are eerily similar to what is considered european/western martial arts, and the west, like every other culture, absorbed many aspects of foreign cultures. The truth is that it is all shrouded in mystery and perhaps even lost in the sands of time. One thing that we can be certain of is that all of these styles and cultures, both east and west, are not as unique and mutually exclusive as they are made out to be. Everybody borrowed something from everybody, so nobody can really lay claim to having a monopoly on the martial arts, both old and new.
Train hard and the answers will reveal themselves in a way that you can truly understand.

#140048 - 12/21/06 03:56 PM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: Katana83]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I've often wondered whether the weather and climate has any influence on fighting systems. I also think the style of warfare in medieval Europe might have influenced the lack of leg techniques in anything other than wrestling.

With regards to an earlier question about Hwa rang, perhaps the term "flowering youth" is more appropriate, as in 'blossoming', suggesting vitality.

Edited by trevek (12/21/06 04:08 PM)

#140049 - 12/26/06 08:32 PM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: TeK9]
scottt Offline

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Winnipeg, MB

... Tang Soo Do has the same exact techniques as taekwondo ...

Yes, I have also found this interesting. When my grandmaster was young and growing up in Korea he studied martial arts, but Taekwondo did not exist at that time. He has been teaching tkd since coming to Canada many years ago, but the fact is that he really learned something else first. In his case the main thing was also Tang Soo Do, and from what little I have seen of that art, there are a lot of similarities in philosophy and technique between it and what I have been taught.

Interestingly, since Japan was influential (understatement), my understanding is that he also practiced Japanese arts just because politics forced him to.
you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

#140050 - 03/26/07 07:37 PM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: trevek]
practica Offline

Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 19
Funnily enough they do still exist. Even boxing was known for kicking at one point.

Believe it or not, the Brits (though it seems mostly the English) practiced a sport called 'shin kicking' ( and it's still done in Gloucestershire.

Savate is a French kicking art and also relied on stout shoes.

Devonshire Wrestling - very similar to Cornish except Devonshire wrestlers have an unpleasant habit of using nasty low-line kicks while in the clinch. I live in Devon, so I'm going to do some digging on this.

Zipota - Basque foot fighting; very similar to savate but with more emphasis on jumping kicks

Chausson - French foot fighting, predecessor of savate although still practiced in its original form in Marseille (Chausson Marseilles)

Libera Boxing (Italy) used fists, elbows, legs, knees, head and even back and thighs were used in some techniques to attack anemy. Also they wear light boots pointed on the top, so kicks could couse death.


The article looks great, but wouldn't have been better put in the articles of It's a bit hard to read here.

Anyway, tremendous work. Well done!

My first question would be about the pancration. If this is possibly a basis for many Asian arts, then why are forms of foot fighting rather rare in Europe?

#140051 - 04/08/07 02:55 PM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: practica]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
some nice suggestions. However, it's worth considering that savate is probably based on things sailors picked up from Asia.

Purring (shinkicking) was practised in north countries too. By all accounts they used heavy clogs.

Devonshire wrestling died out in 1920's I believe (unless they've tried to revive it). They also used to wear clogs. In the Cornish vs Devonshire matches the Devonshire wrestler was only allowed to wear one clog. I have a 19th Century article about Cornish wresling where they berate the 'ungentlemanly' kicking of the Devonshire men and say football would never catch on in Cornwall cos they dislike kicking!
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

#140052 - 04/10/07 10:37 AM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: trevek]
MarkhamTaekwondo Offline

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6
Loc: 8261 Woodbine Ave. 2nd floor. ...
If you want to better understand the origins of a Martial Art, the answer lies in Lanuage, and if you trace back a countries lanugage, then you will have a better idea of the origins of a specific Art.
I believe that all Martial Arts are directly related to the time line of Mans Evoluton, and Transmigration from one place to another. If you go back 40 years, there would be taekwondo, go back 90 years and there isnt, only Japanese based styles, go back 150 years and only Taekyon styles, but like any Nation, or Dynasty, you had to have a army and the skills of the troops were taught to them be someone else. What I'm trying to say is that Taekwondo like everything else in life gets passed down from person to person, sometimes that information gets lost due to peoples becoming isolated, or people getting completely wiped out (genocide) by another Tribe or army. If you go back far enough in time, you could say that the origins of Taekwondo are in fact African, if you believe that modern man are all descendants from there and simply migrated outwards. If a caveman teaches his son to hit things or other caveman with a dinosaur bone, couldnt that be classifiead as a form of Martial Arts. That skill is being passed down, from Master to Student. Martial Arts. like most things in life has to be learned from someone else, and if someone teaches that martial art to others, then te next generatin of Masters will change it to some degree. We can even see this in the way Present Day Masters Teach. Most Masters slightly change they're style of a Martial Arts depending on outside influences, or simply their own beliefs might change. When a young Master teaches, he may focus on speed, but as he ages he might decide that power is more important. Therefore that same Master has change his own Art slightly.
Master John Huh

#140053 - 06/11/07 04:28 PM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: MarkhamTaekwondo]
1964tkd Offline

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 7
Taekwon-Do and Tae Kwon Do, in my opinion are two different animals. Back in 1961, the KTA( Korea Tae Soo Do Assosiation)voted on the name Tae Soo Do to unite the different Kwans. On the other hand Gen. Choi wanted unity under one style, Taekwon-Do. The Kwans didn't want to change what they were teaching and only wanted to unite the Kwans. Even in the late 1960's there was talk between the KTA and ITF until Dr. Kim became President of the KTA. Then cooperation stopped and Gen. Choi left Korea in 1972.

#140054 - 06/12/07 07:37 AM Re: History of Tae Kwon Do [Re: trevek]
ElitMartial Offline

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 3
I heard Tae Kwon Do is from Karate and Taekyon, General Choi mix them both up and form a new martial art called Tae Kwon Do

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