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#125317 - 01/23/03 10:30 AM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
gezortenplotz Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 2
Loc: Newport, RI
True Aikido War Stories

(To support the discussion as to whether Aikido is a good self-defense)

* 6th kyu student (mellow Deadhead & trained in the dojo for about a year) and owner of a local pizza restaurant closing up shop at 2AM with a few customers still in the store. Drunk comes in off of the street. "Dude, we're closed."
Drunk gets unreasonably aggressive. "No, dude, we're closed." Drunk grabs for student. "It was like Sensei said -- time slowed down & it was like he was handing me a sankyo." Student takes the sankyo (pain compliance hold) into a come-along towards the door. Drunk grabs hold of a stanchion to resist [BIG mistake]. Student cranks on sankyo harder; drunk yelps in extreme pain and student escorts drunk outside store. Drunk winds up outside yelling to customers inside "Did you see what he did to me?" Customers laugh at drunk and also express concern for student's well being.

Female 4th kyu student in a bar. Student's hair on the top of her head is grabbed from behind. She clamps the hand onto her head bends down and ducks under the arm into shiho nage. Other woman shocked as she hits the floor. Bouncers intervene.

3rd kyu getting razzed by his friends about the inadequacy of Aikido as self defense at the pool table. Liquor is definately involved. Student demonstrates ikkyo [1rst pinning technique]; result -- friends generally unimpressed. Later, and outside the bar, an ambush is executed by the biggest 6-foot 3-inch guy. He grabs student from behind & student goes for ikkyo, but the big guy's seen it & resists ikkyo. Student quickly changes technique to udegurami (shoulder entanglement) with tenkan. Big guy shreds his nose and cheek on the pavement. Student apologizes profusely.

* nidan student -- a prodigy in Aikido. This guy's Aikido is what Mozart was to the piano. Even the shihans notice this guy at seminars. Student's in a bar. See's his friend getting into trouble & starts to walk over to help. WHAM! Student gets sucker punched in the side of the head -- puncher gave it all he had and when he doesn't see the 5 foot 2-inch nidan hit the floor, he runs like hell.

The point in these stories is that Aikido seemed to work. But, as in the last story, no matter how much and well you've trained, combat is truly chaos and the unexpected sucker punch happens.

Aikido looks wimpy, but all of those rolls and breakfalls that uke takes are all good conditioning for the punches that the Aikido student thought he was going to avoid surprises his face/body.

May I also direct to www.aikidoonline.com and the Aikido Works article by Carlo Fargnoli (NYC policeman)?

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#125318 - 02/01/03 12:29 PM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
Tao aiki Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 4
I must say in my my experiences with aikido, is that it works. When you are practicing the techniques, you are doing so with an experienced partner, who most importanly knows how to fall in different techniques. On the street,(and I speak from experience.) dong aikido techniques easily ...turn down your offender from further attack. For example when you do tenchi nagi, itead of them gracefully rolling back, the offender will resist, then be thrown in a vigorous way.

Also you should watch the black belts practice, they dont practice softly, and if you watch correctly, you'll see all of the blended strikes to the pressure points of the body, as well as seeing the uke get airborn. In aikido we practice according to each's level, I wouldnt do irimi and launch a first time learner into the air and hurt him. But in retrospect when going against someone with similar experience as me, I hold nothing back.

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#125319 - 02/07/03 05:50 AM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
I trained in Aikido for only three months and from the people there as well as other Martial Artists I know who go to different Aikido schools is that they came across very arrogant.

Although this put me off initially I persevered (well if you can call 3 months perseverence).

I finally left when the instructor found out that I also trained in Karate, and I basically got ridiculled for the rest of the lesson and was asked to demonstrate moves to try and illustrate how bad karate was, not to be rude I reluctantly agreed to show some basics. It didn't really work the way the instructor wanted as even though I stuck with very basic moves that I would show to a beginner and not performing them at full speed they were getting through on people that had been there for 9 years or more - don't worry I wasn't being macho or anything I didn't hurt anyone, or intend to, it was quite embarrassing really.

After that I just didn't want to train at a place that was so openly hostile to other Martial Arts.

it was like "Aikido is it, everything else is rubbish!"

I'm not suggesting that is the same as the people on this board - in fact just coming to a forum to discuss the art shows that they are not arrogant.

Maybe just a bad experience/club.

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#125320 - 02/07/03 12:22 PM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
Most definately a bad club, U.F.F and I can see why you didn't stay. Unfortunately some aikido is also bad, and that might explain why the people there try to belittle other arts - to cover the inadequacies that they know are there in their style.

I am glad to see you have the sense and decency not to tar all aikidoka with this same brush though. All too often people see one style/school they don't like and then condem the whole art.

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#125321 - 02/07/03 01:09 PM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
UKfightfreak Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco
Your right I never condem arts, (maybe taebo - billy blanks was better as a b-movie actor).

Its just ashame that clubs and people like this do exist.

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#125322 - 04/10/03 05:01 PM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
I admit I have not read the whole thread, but I can only imagine how many times this has been debated in martial arts forums.

There is a man in the dojo that my club is affiliated with who works with troubled youth, many of whom are quite violent. He uses Aikido on almost literally a daily basis. It definitely works for him. He has told me that disarming a knife or a broken bottle from someone is very possible with someone with some skill, but when you have disarm someone with a syringe it can be a whole different ballgame.

I've also heard that the harder the style of Aikido, the more applicable it is "on the street." Well, the man I am talking about is Ki Society. Ki-Aikido has not failed me, though I have failed it on one occasion.

Peace.

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#125323 - 04/10/03 11:12 PM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
TheSod_88 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 20
Loc: Santa Rosa, CA, United States
Aikido is definitely not effective! lol

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#125324 - 04/11/03 11:22 AM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I think that this sod is right. Modern aikido has little or no chance of being effective for self defence. It is far too complicated, far to reliant upon the over commiting of the attack and far too concerned with being gentle to your opponent. Compare it with other arts such as karate and its deficiencies are glaringly obvious.

Budo

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#125325 - 04/11/03 01:45 PM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
raccoon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Victoria BC Canada
Cato>

Hmm...

Did something ... changed recently?

Would you like to talk about it?

If you want me to stop beating around the bush...

did you stop taking some medications? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif[/IMG]

Get back onto it!

-raccoon

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#125326 - 04/11/03 04:56 PM Re: Don't think aikido is effective self-defense
Cato Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 1636
I think it is important to maintain an open mind in training, and everything else for that matter, and to be able to admit when you have been wrong. If you learn something that goes against what you previously thought, shouldn't you say so?

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