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#436310 - 08/12/14 05:14 AM Re: The Karate punch [Re: Matakiant]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Karate punches will to me always be considered as grappling skills the push pull as practiced in Judo and Jujitsu not actual punching.
If you look at the origins of Karate through to Koda Te to Shuri Te and Tomari Te and Naha Te and beyond they were grappling arts very close to that practice in Judo and Jujitsu using many skills found in Chin Na an San Shou Kiao Juao.

boxing punches are proven in many conditions to be more powerful than karate punches
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436321 - 08/26/14 09:27 PM Re: The Karate punch [Re: Matakiant]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
there is no 'karate punch' - there is only a response that works, and one that doesn't. getting caught up in the details is drinking the kool-aid of whatever the particular school is teaching. alot of karate places remind me of esoteric software design..they over-engineer the solution to the problem which leads them down a path of focusing on over-developing minute details instead of the big picture.

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#436336 - 09/18/14 06:07 AM Re: The Karate punch [Re: Ed_Morris]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
Originally Posted By: Ed_Morris
there is no 'karate punch' - there is only a response that works, and one that doesn't. getting caught up in the details is drinking the kool-aid of whatever the particular school is teaching. alot of karate places remind me of esoteric software design..they over-engineer the solution to the problem which leads them down a path of focusing on over-developing minute details instead of the big picture.


Well what is the big picture then?

And how is there no ''karate'' or any other style punch? The body mechanics taught or ''technique'' taught wildly differ in karate alone.

I've been taught one way another guy this way and a third guy in a completely different way. Even in your own style, if it still has teachers who are actually teaching not mimicking what whatever some great long dead Sensei who founded the style did, people will be using different technique and body mechanic to best suit their own bodies.

So I suppose thinking back on it now my question was sort of a double edged sword; 1 for people who do truly believe this textbook style stories of how a karate punch must have a twist or your shoulders should never be raised or any other kind of (to me) nonsensical absolutes.

A lot of people would crucify you for saying ''a punch is just a punch'' but in reality it is, the only difference is how it's being thrown, what the body mechanics behind it are, wether their solid or not-so solid.

Ultimately I think any practitioner should strive to reach a level where the mechanics they use are not directly mimiced off of anyone, if you practice long enough with focus and contact you should be developing your own ''style'' that fits and works with your body the best.

I am just interested in the different ideas behind proper body mechanics or technique so to speak. To my sadness I find that the majority of people who are practicing karate do not think about body mechanic they think about ''what sensei said & showed me'' and when that sensei him/herself isn't thinking about it... Well you get meaningless hollow techniques.

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#436350 - 10/09/14 03:16 PM Re: The Karate punch [Re: Matakiant]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
The structure and mechanics of a particular "labeled way" of generating power will vary meaningfully. What makes my "tode" different from yours in terms of methods to generate power in our bodies.

We start with a very precise and specific structure. How we move, what we turn or not is governed by the principles of our art. Maximum effect for the minimum possible effort.

Repetition causes muscle memory. Attentive, mindful repetition creates awareness of various excess or unhelpful pieces we sometimes (always?) add to a specific movement(s).
Ten thousand plus repetitions creates a basis on which to develop striking power regardless of technique.

Structure is fundamental and critical for power generation. Whether standing on ones tippy-toes, or done from the lowest horse stance either will help generate power. Provided that practice is micro focused and one is (with time) hyper-aware of ones body structure... power is generated because of incessant consistency.

Haphazard, random can definitely generate power, but repeating that, isolating the components is far more difficult, if not impossible. Consistency, repetition, structure are the concepts of power generation.

Add in UN-inhibited dead weight, relaxed weight if you will and power is easier still. However becoming aware of the muscles of the shoulder, arm, takes lots of time and insane repetition. Are we using only the tension we must to move the body OR are extra and unhelpful parts being tightened and slowing us down...?

This the type of thing you seek?


Edited by Ronin1966 (10/09/14 03:17 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification

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#436357 - Yesterday at 10:01 PM Re: The Karate punch [Re: Matakiant]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
Your post made me more think of this part

'' However becoming aware of the muscles of the shoulder, arm, takes lots of time and insane repetition''

This made me think of my own training and some of the training I've provided others.

I never just repeated the same thing over thousands of repetitions. I did some ''mindless'' repetition but quite quickly some basics of body mechanics became part of my study.

That is a longer story in of itself. But it reminded me of a question I had as a much less trained practitioner

Repetition or rather practice is surely good but how can we simply tell a complete beginner to MIMICK our movements and assume them to learn something without ever explaining the body mechanics or the ultimate goal behind the movement.

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