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#436268 - 07/10/14 07:14 AM ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Ok I have a day for personal training but I have a choice between ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate

What do you think I should?

I'm Ashihara Karate so Japanese based but the sparring in ITF is not to dissimilar to Ashihara Karate sparring.

The only thing is the Sine Wave, and will start again at white belt.

Looking forward to your replies
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436271 - 07/10/14 08:18 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Dobb

Do you want to do something "different' or are you looking for something more or less what you already know?

Don't know much about Ashihara flavor of karate--so I'm just guessing, but I would think the TKD might be pretty different.

Since you know what your doing there is not really a question of quality, you know what to look for and know a good school/teachers when you see one.

I would try Shotokan--but mainly because I'm training in a Goju flavor of karate and Shotokan is different from what I know. Plus they have some kata I think are interesting.

No matter which one you pick, I'd like to know how it goes, what your impression might be etc.

Good luck!
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#436272 - 07/11/14 05:55 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Hi CXT

Thanks its bias towards ITF TaeKwonDo at present, Shotokan is very similar to my Tang Soo Do and Wado Ryu Days, whereas ITF is very different in various parts of the syllabus

Will do the SineWave for the gradings etc but hope it doesn't affect my existing Karate
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436280 - 07/15/14 05:32 PM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Sinewave apart, Chang Hon TKD was very much based in Shotokan for a lot of its hand techniques etc (General Choi was reputedly a Shotokan BB). Where it does differ is the selection of kicks.

Not sure if that helps.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#436281 - 07/16/14 06:41 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
well tonight is the night, will update everyone tomorrow
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436282 - 07/16/14 10:53 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Good luck!
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#436283 - 07/17/14 05:31 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
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Went well, enjoyed the class. worked on Sine wave and a few other techniques

Did 4 directional blocking and punching.

The Instructor 2nd Degree advised me at the end of class that he's not qualified enough to teach me as i would have to train with his Instructor who is a 7th Degree. I advised I am still a White belt in TaeKwonDo but it is due to my grade in my main style as I out rank him

Shame as he's a good instructor and I would be happy to learn from him
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436284 - 07/17/14 08:33 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Good of him to mention it.

Well, if he's good and you'd like to just learn the system, why not ask him.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#436285 - 07/17/14 01:16 PM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Sounds like it was an interesting class.

It was cool of the guy to mention his concerns about rank. Clearly you impressed him.

Speaks well of the guy teaching.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#436287 - 07/18/14 06:17 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
I await the Response from his Instructor

I'm Happy to train with the Instructor, Its not as if I'm going to be given an honourary grade in TaeKwonDo or anything so I'm happy to start at White belt 10th Kup
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436289 - 07/23/14 05:35 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Well I got the response this morning

Dear Mr. Dobbersky,

I hope that you are very well and thank you for contacting me regarding training.

As Mr. W may have discussed with you it is an organisation policy that students are not permitted
to train with a more junior grade instructor if they hold the same or a higher Dan grade in the same or
similar martial art as TaeKwon-Do.

As regards training with myself, ordinarily you would be most welcome to do so, if yo were training
in TaeKwon-Do only which was the impression that I was under. We tend to follow a very traditional
approach to martial training (handed down from my original instructor) of potentially making a life
long commitment to choosing one teacher/art and then fully immersing ourselves into that. In addition,
this avoids the potential of one teacher (myself) showing any disrespect to your other (Karate) teachers.

So it is with sincere regret that I can not currently offer you a training facility in TaeKwon-Do. I realise
that you may be disappointed with this, so I humbly request you understanding of these traditional methods.
As a fellow martial artist though I wish you a lot of adventure on your training journey and best wishes for your 4th Dan
grading.


Yours sincerely,

Master I
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436290 - 07/23/14 01:18 PM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Dobb


I got to say it, don't know these guys or their org, but that sounds like a weasel response to me.

They just don't want an experienced person in the class.

IMO

"Very traditional" my wrinkled chapped arse.

Back in the day, good students were encouraged to seek out other teachers.

"potentially making a life long commitment"

How would they possibly know what your level of "commitment" might be?
Wonder that their "drop out" rate is right now--with people that have never trained--unlike you that has shown dedication and commitment already.

"potential of showing disrespect"

How would teaching your art possible cause "disrespect" to other teachers?

"so I humbly request you understanding of these traditional methods."

Maybe I'm getting irked over nothing.

But if the guy does not want to train you he should have just said "no thank you---having problems getting my own training in and I just don't have time for new students" Or whatever.

No need for the games.

Keep an eye on this guys school--bet you euro's to crumpets he is shut down this time next year.

On the other hand---better to find out now rather in 6 months these dudes arte not serious.

And on the plus side---narrows down the field.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#436291 - 07/24/14 07:16 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
My response to Master I

Thank you for your response.

I am the most Senior Instructor in my School. Therefore I have no instructors to be concerned with.

My Training regards the Learning of my karate is complete. The discovery of what itís all about will take a lifetime.

I have no qualms starting as a White belt, I have many students myself who have been black belts in other styles I even allow them to wear their black belts in my class.

I have endeavoured to gain degree level in ITF but I always seem to be disappointed somehow. I was even contemplating representing your school in the open tournaments etc. I will gain degree level in ITF before Iím 50

Never mind, I can understand your position

Thanks so much

OSU!!!

(Osu is a contraction of the words:

押し Oshi meaning "Push"

忍ぶ Shinobu meaning "to Endure"

It means patience, determination and perseverance. Every time we say "Osu", we remind ourselves of this.)
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#436292 - 07/24/14 11:35 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
You handled it much better than I would have.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#436298 - 07/31/14 12:04 PM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: cxt]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: cxt
You handled it much better than I would have.

I might meet some of his fighers in the future. That will be fun.

I start my new Dojang tomorrow night. looking forward to it.

Thanks
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#436299 - 08/01/14 12:01 PM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Please let us know how it goes.

Good luck!
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#436300 - 08/04/14 04:46 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
It went well, The instructor introduced me to all his Dan grades advising my previous experience.

learned the first 2 basic forms within 10 mins. and did a little "self defence"

The guy I was partnered with, a 2nd Degree, was explaining to me as if i was a White belt (which I was wearing), but I behaved humbly as this might be his teaching method

Enjoyed it and looking forward to the next class

thanks
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#436311 - 08/12/14 12:01 PM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
I would like to know who his instructor is. If I'm not mistaken, Gen. Choi encouraged cross training as he felt it showed Chang Hon (ITF) TKD's superiority. One of the Generals top ranking students, Rhee Ki Ha is in Great Briton, maybe you should reach out to him and find out about "Tradition". I have been welcomed into may dojangs both ITF & WTF to train as well as Japanese styles. And as mentioned earlier much of Chang Hon is based in Shotokan with several patterns looking very similar. Ask the 2nd Dan you worked with to show you the Dan Gun Tul and see if it looks like anything in the Shotokan Kata's!

VDJ

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#436314 - 08/15/14 10:55 AM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Master I is a 7th Degree so very close to the original founders in the UK for ITF.

As they say every dissappointment is a hidden blessing
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436316 - 08/15/14 05:46 PM Re: ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate???? [Re: Dobbersky]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
GM Rhee Ki Ha 9th Dan and is one of the Pioneers. Just saying.

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