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#436104 - 12/05/13 09:56 AM Re: It's YOUR fault Sports Karate!!!! [Re: Prizewriter]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 908
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
Full contact karate practioner beaten badly in prison by a fellow inmate:

http://www.kyokushin4life.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9902

Of course doing full contact karate doesn't make someone Superman. The Royce Gracie fight also shows how badly a full contact karate fighter can be caught out by a grappler too.


Totally agree, I'm not saying that Knockdown Karate is the be all and end all, just a little more prepared for taking hits. Grapplers fight on a different plane and grapplers realised that when the Strikers learnt a bit of ground/grappling skills it meant that they had to learn striking skills too to bring the "game" back to a fairer plane.

Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
I certainly would not describe full contact practioners as "Neanderthals". I would question why they spar they way they spar and how much sense is applied to it vs how much is machoism. I would also question the belief this makes them better than other karate-ka.


I wouldn't say we are "Macho" some of the most humble Karateka are Kyokushin and knckdown karateka

Most Okinawan and Kyokushin based Karateka do fight/spar to more harder levels but the other extreme is Go Kan Ryu or Choi Kwang Do where its all none contact - do recall the first time you got hit, did you freeze or did you go "OK that's just like in training"

Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
I may be wrong, but didn't the founder of Ashihara Karate leave Oyama because in part he felt that Kyokushin Karate with rock 'em sock'em style favoured larger, more powerful fighters? Didn't he at least try and introduce more evasion in Kumite?


That's correct but slightly different he wanted to give the new guys and smaller guys the ability to still give as much as they got but with the ability to use sabaki thus being able to strike and attack reducing the taking of hits on the way in - normally Sabaki isn't taught to anyone below Black belt in most karate schools

Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
The question I would also ask is why do you care what other people think? If people are ignorant about what you are doing, that's their problem. I've never considered using martial arts as an affectation to impress people. Just do your own thing and don't worry about what other people think. Whatever pastime you do, there will always be a queue of people who don't understand it. Just spend time with people who enjoy what you enjoy and get what it's all about.

I'm playing devils advocate here I know! Just to keep some discussion going on FA forums. It's a good topic.



I care because I get fed up with being tarred with the same brush by people who don't know any different. but once they've made the decision that Karate is a soft art and doesn't work, you can't change their minds UNTIL they start seeing changes on the Mat and TV etc
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436109 - 12/09/13 05:07 AM Re: It's YOUR fault Sports Karate!!!! [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Originally Posted By: Dobbersky


Most Okinawan and Kyokushin based Karateka do fight/spar to more harder levels but the other extreme is Go Kan Ryu or Choi Kwang Do where its all none contact - do recall the first time you got hit, did you freeze or did you go "OK that's just like in training"


I kept going, but my first full contact training was boxing. How much free sparrring do traditional okinawan schools do though?? The only traditional Okinwan school in NI doesn't spar.




Originally Posted By: Dobbersky
I care because I get fed up with being tarred with the same brush by people who don't know any different. but once they've made the decision that Karate is a soft art and doesn't work, you can't change their minds UNTIL they start seeing changes on the Mat and TV etc



I don't see why you are going out of your way to appease people who are too lazy/ignorant to understand what you are doing. It might have the opposite effect of what you want anyway. Wanting everyone to like what you are doing as much as you do may come across as well... a bit needy lol! I think in the internet age peopele are more clued in about what is what anyway. I don't think it is ignorance that is keeping MMA fighters out of full contact karate schools.

You may have to face facts Ken and accept that full contact karate may never be a popular training method with MMA fighters, no matter how much you try and please them. The vast vast majority of MMA champions have been successful without Full contact Karate. That is the fact of the matter.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#436111 - 12/11/13 06:41 AM Re: It's YOUR fault Sports Karate!!!! [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 908
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Yes Prizerwriter,

I must admit, although its hard to, that you are correct. The damage has been done and the scars are already too deep to hide now. Geroge StPierre, Semmy Schilt, Andy Hug and others are our Ambasadors of Full COntact Karate but there's not enough of them to change things about it. Maybe when more Daito Juku fighters are entering the Cage in UFC and are proudly represented as Daito Juku fighter as UFC tend to declare as many as possible as Mixed Martial Artists etc. Hence why I don't recall any TKD'ists or JKD'ists on the event cards

I suppose comparing it to a piece of paper, you crumple it into a ball its all creased etc, you open it out flat again, the creases are still there, even if you "iron" the piece of paper the creases are stil visable
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#436112 - 12/11/13 10:11 AM Re: It's YOUR fault Sports Karate!!!! [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
FWIW Ken I think there is a lot of value in Full contact styles and most genuinely good karate schools. I think the template for MMA has already been cut though, and it will be hard for anything to change that for the forseeable future.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#436113 - 12/11/13 06:04 PM Re: It's YOUR fault Sports Karate!!!! [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Folks

Very interesting read--thanks for taking the time to have the discussion. smile

UN-informed consumers taking their cues from what that see on TV.....same problem the martial arts have always had....albiet from a different direction this time.



Edited by cxt (12/11/13 06:07 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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