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#435976 - 08/21/13 05:46 PM Chinese Kungfu VS. Mongolian Wrestling?
Limit Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/20/13
Posts: 3


recently many people started to discuss abt Chinese kungfu vs Mongolian wrestling on some martial arts forums,i don't know why yous choose this topic but it is actually quite interesting,however seems most of people dont know much abt them.myself is an ethnic Russian from north western China and i personally have 10 years Karate and Judo experience so i'd like to tell some truth abt Chinese kungfu and Mongolian wrestling,hope it helps:)


Mongolian wrestling(bokh) is a legacy from ancient battlefield,it contains over 300 techniques, was designed for military purpose. On the ancient battlefields, punch or kicking techniques are not practical at all when all your enemies fully covered by armors. ground techniques are only practical when you fight 1 on 1, but if you use ground techniques on battlefields it's just purely suicide because your enemies around can chop your head off anytime while you performing arm bar on the ground. the best way is takedown your enemies and terminate them by swords, this is the main idea of Mongolian wrestling. belt-and-jacket wrestling is the best combat form on battlefields. Mongols brought Mongolian wrestling to Russia in 13th century during the Golden Horde period and later it mixed with judo techniques became the morden combat sambo,Geogian traditional wretlers today still dress like ancient Mongolian wrestlers and wresle on grassland. Chinese wrestling(shuaijiao) was also origionated from Mongolian wrestling,after Manchus and Mongols established Qing empire and later occupied China in 1644,Mongolian wrestling became the national sport of the country. Manchus were strongly influenced by Mongols in culture since 13th century,they later created Manchurian wrestling(boku) based on Mongolian wrestling,and boku is the predecessor of today's Chinese national wrestling.




All Chinese traditional martial arts origionated from Shaolin,Shaolin kungfu was based from the book Yijin Jing(易筋经) which left behind by the Indian monk Bodhidharma in 6th century. however if you take a look at Yijin Jing you would know it is only a book of body stretching exercises, it wasn't designed for fighting at all. Chinese Wushu or Kungfu are not even martial arts,they are more like kind of gymnastic or performance. Those people who watched too much Kungfu movies mentioned abt Bruce Lee,well,but i have to say Bruce Lee is not a fighter but a movie actor. how do you proof yourself is a great fighter?the answer is to be a champion in a world level fighting competition, not by making a kungfu movie and knock out all your enemies in the storyline. there is no doubt Chinese can make stunning martial atrs movies but it doesn't mean they can fight in reality. Bruce Lee had never participate any fighting competitions in his life. In Oakland, California in 1964 at Chinatown, Bruce Lee had a controversial private match against Wong Jackman, a cafe restaurant waiter and Chinese traditional martial arts practicer. individuals known to have witnessed the match included Cadwell, James Lee (Bruce Lee's associate, no relation), and William Chen, a teacher of Taichi. Wong and witness William Chen stated that the fight lasted an unusually long 2025 minutes.however according to Bruce Lee and his wife, the fight lasted 3 minutes with a decisive victory for Lee. Wong Jackman published his own account of the battle in the Chinese Pacific Weekly, a Chinese-language newspaper in San Francisco, which contained another challenge to Lee for a public rematch.Lee had no reciprocation to Wong's article. This is the only fighting record of Bruce Lee. The former coach of Chinese national sanda team Di Shoutao(翟寿涛) once said Bruce Lee even has nothing compared to a third-class sanda fighter.




The reason Chinese created Sanda in 1970's is simply because the traditional Chinese martial arts cannot fight. Sanda is named by Chinese as "Wushu Sanda" or "Kungfu Sanda" ,however it has nothing to do with Wushu or Kungfu at all, Sanda is a mixture of morden kickboxing and Chinese shuaijiao wrestling. In 1980 and 1981,the Chinese sanda master Mei Huizhi(梅惠志) arranged few fighting contests between sanda fighters and local traditional Chinese kungfu masters in Beijing,eventually sanda fighters easily wiped out all Kungfu masters. in 1985 and 1986 the sanda team participated Shaolin Cup Kungfu Conpetition(少林杯) and again all kungfu masters were wiped out. in 1987 they won the Wudangshan Kungfu Tournament(武当山擂台赛).


Mongols only have a total population around 10 million mainly distribute in Mongolia,Russia and northern China. Mongolia was given the title "the Kingdom of Martial Arts(格闘技大国)" from Japan because there are many great Mongolian fighters even with such a small population.


Bayanmonkh, 10 times Mongolian wrestling national champion. he also won 100kg gold medal in World Freestyle Wrestling Championship in 1975.



Boris Budaev, a notable Soviet freestyle wrestler. ethnic Mongolian. he got the title "World Freestyle Wrestling the King of Kings"1979, European champion in 1982, Soviet champion in 1985, World Champion in 1989.



Vasilii Milankhanov, a legendary freestyle wrestler of Soviet,ethnic Mongolian.



Tuvshinbayar, a Mongolian traditional wrestler and judo wrestler,he won 100kg judo gold medal in 2008 summer Olympic. however he has only reached "Ulsiin Khartsaga" which is the 8th highest title in Mongolian wrestling.



Tsagaanbaatar, a Mongolian traditional wrestler and judo wrestler.he won 66kg gold medals in Judo World Championship in 2009 and Judo World Masters in 2011. however no titles in Mongolian traditional wrestling.



Asashoryu, from Ulaanbaatar Mongolia,the 68th Yokozuna in the history of sumo.



Hakuho, from Ulaanbaatar Mongolia,the 69th Yokozuna in the history of sumo.



Harumafuji, from Ulaanbaatar Mongolia,the 70th Yokozuna in the history of sumo. the sumo world has been entirely occupied by Mongolian wrestlers since 2003.
[img]http://i40.tinypic.com/2ajuses.jpg[/img]


Munkhbayasgalan, a Mongolian sambo fighter, he holds 1 gold and 2 silver medals from Combat Sambo World Championships. he also holds a MMA record with 5 wins 0 losses. Mongolia took 4 gold and 7 silver medals in World Sambo Championships from 2006 to 2009.
[img]http://i40.tinypic.com/16i8r29.jpg[/img]


Jadamba Narantunglag, a Mongolian kyokushin fighter.he fought in K-1 World Max in 2004 and almost knocked out K-1 world champion Albert Krause when Krause at height of his fame. On 31st Dec 2012 Krause knocked out 3 Chinese sanda champions in one night in Wulinfeng World Kungfu Tournament.
[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/4jruyh.jpg[/img]


Batu,a Russian kickboxing super star,ethnic Mongolian.
[img]http://i44.tinypic.com/3130gaa.jpg[/img]


Tsogto Amara,WKA world champion, All Japan Kickboxing champion.
[img]http://i43.tinypic.com/27x1izn.jpg[/img]


Bulag, a top Kickboxing, Sanda, and MMA fighter in China,ethnic Mongolian. he is the WKA( World Kickboxing Association) heavyweight champion in 2008 and 2010, the King of Sanda champion in 2002 and 2003, the current Art of War MMA Championships undefeated champion. he defeated the Chinese legendary sanda master Liu Hailong(柳海龙) in the 9th National Games of the PRC '2001.
[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/14kh0mv.jpg[/img]


Tseveenpurev, a Mongolian boxer,WBF and WBU champion.
[img]http://i40.tinypic.com/2vxqdmq.jpg[/img]


the Mongols in China only takes 0.0003% of the entire Chinese population,however many top scientists,artists,politicians,fighters in China are ethnic Mongolians.

the top sanda fighters in China with Mongolian origin including Chingger, Geriletu, Bat, Mandukh, Otgiin-Baatar, Bulag...


Otgiin-Baatar, the King of Chinese National Sanda Tournament, ethnic Mongolian. he defeated the Chinese legendary sanda master Liu Hailong(柳海龙) in 2005.
[img]http://i39.tinypic.com/2rrastz.jpg[/img]


Bayan-Batu, Chinese National Wrestling champion in 62kg division, ethnic Mongolian. In 2005 he defeated the heavyweight champion Gao yu(高宇) and the super heavyweight champion Wang Xuan(王翾) in openweight, and became the King of Kings in Chinese Wrestling.
[img]http://i44.tinypic.com/w7zwgh.jpg[/img]


"the 5 Heavenly Kings" in Chinese MMA: Mandukh, Daishuanghai, Aohailiin, Wuhaotian, Bulag, are all ethnic Mongolians.
Chinese MMA is entirely occupied by Mongols from welterweight to super heavyweight division.
[img]http://i39.tinypic.com/118q3pj.jpg[/img]


Chinese population is 200 times more than Mongols,however Chinese rarely win a world title. Billy Chow(周比利,the WKA super welterweight kickboxing champion of the world from 1984 to 1986) and Xiong Zhaozhong(熊朝忠,the current WBC Minimumweight Champion) are the only two Chinese to ever win World titles in authorized professional fighting competitions.


notable Shaolin Kungfu master Yi Long(一龙) got knocked out by an American boxer.
[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/2va1hdz.jpg[/img]



There are no weight classes in Mongolian wrestling, a small wrestler can compete against an opponent over twice his size. smallest wrestlers usually weight around 70kg, while the biggest are over 200kg, the median weight of a competitor in Mongolian wrestling is around 115kg.

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#435980 - 08/23/13 10:29 AM Re: Chinese Kungfu VS. Mongolian Wrestling? [Re: Limit]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Limit

Interesting read.....however I would be remiss if I didn't point out that it really does not help you out to build up "your" art by running down other peoples arts or other people for that matter.

I happen to be Scottish (in part) --and the argument could be made the entire basis for the modern world was developed by Scottish engineers and scientists. Cell phones, the computer you used to make this post etc.

But making a long detailed post on the ethnic background of say Lord Kelvin is hardly helpful to anyone.

You want to discuss the pro's and con's of a specific art then more power to you.

But you need more support than just what is essentially "so and so knocked out a kung fu guy."

I could just as easily say--and it would be just as WRONG--that "no "Mongolian" has ever won a UFC title."

Proves nothing.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#435982 - 08/27/13 07:20 AM Re: Chinese Kungfu VS. Mongolian Wrestling? [Re: Limit]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Very Interesting Read

I've actually been reading a book Called San Sho Kuai Jiao (Chinese Fast Wrestling) at present and this fits really well into the topic of this thread.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chinese-Fast-Wre...+fast+wrestling
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#435988 - 08/29/13 12:04 AM Re: Chinese Kungfu VS. Mongolian Wrestling? [Re: cxt]
Limit Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/20/13
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: cxt
Limit

Interesting read.....however I would be remiss if I didn't point out that it really does not help you out to build up "your" art by running down other peoples arts or other people for that matter.

I happen to be Scottish (in part) --and the argument could be made the entire basis for the modern world was developed by Scottish engineers and scientists. Cell phones, the computer you used to make this post etc.

But making a long detailed post on the ethnic background of say Lord Kelvin is hardly helpful to anyone.

You want to discuss the pro's and con's of a specific art then more power to you.

But you need more support than just what is essentially "so and so knocked out a kung fu guy."

I could just as easily say--and it would be just as WRONG--that "no "Mongolian" has ever won a UFC title."

Proves nothing.





does UFC represent all types of martial arts competitions? UFC champions are pretty good but nowhere near the best. heaps of UFC champions got their asses kicked in Japan. check the following link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdaSILVJaQ8

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