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#432524 - 05/28/11 10:27 AM Karate and ''contact''
Matakiant Offline

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 128
So I was wondering; how many of you practice techniques on a heavy bag &/or makiwara regularily, especially those that do not do any full contact or bogu kumite?

And how important do you think it is to practice on a heavy bag, makiwara or something else. Let me rephrase that; how important do you think it is to practice techniques at full power on equipment of any sort.

The question is centered towards power so let's leave hands conditioning and the alike out of it please.

As for me I believe it to be a absolute necessity in developing proper (powerful) technique.

If you don't hit things with full power your technique, albeit lightning fast and precise as many sportsmen (as I like to call them.) are it all crumbles if power is put in the equation.

Of course all the power in the world is useless unless you learn to use it, sparring, drills etc to develop timing and reflexes are also needed.

The results of semi-contact or even no contact ''karate'' are often displayed in many of it's hideous forms. I believe the most known and my personal favorite and great classic is the competitive kata man's banana hands.

#432525 - 05/28/11 02:58 PM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: Matakiant]
duanew Offline

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
I have a 100 pound bag and a makiwara in my home. I will be getting a large round wooden post soon on the recommendation of my instructor. The karate hand techniques without the proper conditioning are a shadow of themselves.

#432528 - 05/28/11 06:36 PM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: duanew]
choonbee Offline

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
I agree.
The style that I practice focuses more on light-contact sparring for timing and reflexes, so for me, heavy bag work is necessary.
We do punching and kicking drills in class using bags and focus mitts, but not in every class, so the extra heavy bag work helps because I can practice that area of training more consistently.
In addition to being able to practice kicks and strikes with full power, working the bag is a great workout, and is a good stress releiver also.
Good technique without power is useless, as is power without good technique. Good point about conditioning. I think that is a major downfall for many students.
Most schools will condition it's students to a point, but I believe that you have to do work on your own outside of class as well, and the results are well worth the extra effort.

Edited by choonbee (05/28/11 07:01 PM)
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

#432529 - 05/28/11 10:43 PM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: choonbee]
Razma Offline

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 36
I practice on a 100 pound sand bag on a regular basis. I think it's entirely necessary to practice on a makiwara or heavy bag. I haven't gotten to train on a makiwara yet. Just looking at them the only difference I see is the coarse texture to build up callouses better.

Doing bagwork has never added any power to my techniques. Instead I think it's important to condition your arm foot whatever to withstanding the shock of your techniques at full force. Along with hardening your knuckles and toughening up your skin. Also circling the bag etc helps with footwork.

It's a great benefit knowing that my hand isn't gonna break easily.

Edited by Razma (05/28/11 10:44 PM)

#432531 - 05/29/11 06:50 AM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: Razma]
duanew Offline

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
Callouses are not a desired product of striking the makiwara-they serve no purpose other than making your hands ugly. Rope was originally used because it was cheap and available.
I remember my sensei looking at a students calloused hands and saying," Too much makiwara" I used to hit the makiwara a lot more than I do now and started to get the callouses so I backed off. Callouses can also be caused by poor striking technique.
My current sensei says you should use a round wooden pole and work all the strikes, single knuckle, spearhand, toe kicks, , knees, elbows,etc. Striking softly and gradually increasing the power. He doesn't have calloused hands. Now some, Higoanna as an example have really disfigured hands.
I remember reading the book,"Karate-Moving Zen" talking about students trying to get big ugly knuckles some by striking a concrete wall.
The important thing to remember is to train smart, start slow and build as experience and conditioning grow.


#432972 - 06/27/11 10:52 AM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: Matakiant]
gojuman59 Offline

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
I think that it's very important to practice full power strikes on a heavy bag or at least on a kicking shield. My sensei was going over this the other day with us in class. The point being that if you don't work your technique at full power at some point it won't be there if you need to defend your self. I can imagine how bad it would be to have to strike someone in self-defense and your wrists weren't strengthened through full power striking at some point in your training.
If we practice punching air and don't really hit anything, how are we ever going to develop the power needed. I have seen people perform forms who looked great. Their punches and kicks were crisp and appeared to have alot behind them. Those same people when striking a heavy bag or kicking shield are a mere shell of their self as far as striking power.
I guess it all comes down to this, If you are taking Karate you got to hit things. There really isn't any way to get around it. we can't punch air and say, "that would stop an attacker." We have to build our power through repitition.....we got to hit stuff.

keep training, Mark

#433402 - 07/22/11 03:03 PM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: gojuman59]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Of course you have to use training equipment to strike. If you're just punching air, you're in the ATA.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#433408 - 07/22/11 03:55 PM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: BrianS]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Absolutely, bag/pad work and such is required, no matter what the contact level of the school is. Even if you practice full-contact, you typically do not not use 100% power in training all the time. That is where bag/pad practice is so useful.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#435786 - 05/16/13 12:20 PM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: Matakiant]
MattJones Offline

Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 2
Now with solo kata, and kihon aside. I don't think any karate techniques should be practices in thin air. You should always be hitting or lifting/moving something. Makiwara or kigu undo are super import at for this. The conditioning and to int is a nice side effect but the main thing to focus on is how it teaches you to connect your limbs to your body and your body to the floor, you can't achieve this in Thin air.

If your not hitting a pad or makiwara, or using kigu undo tools, then hopefully you have a partner to hit/move/throw/grab etc. you have to develop feeling.

#435792 - 05/30/13 07:55 AM Re: Karate and ''contact'' [Re: Matakiant]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 921
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Good Thread,

Some good advice given in this thread

We tend to use gloveless body conditioning and Pad work to work on power and hand conditioning.

Makiwara, never actually felt the need as all it seems to create is a pushing strike as opposed to a forceful strike.

Grow a Bannana Tree if you can, that'll be much better
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.


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