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#435902 - 07/01/13 02:23 PM MT/MMA knee strike.
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: "MAGon"
Having only Karate as a background for striking, I learned to do knee strikes in the manner taught by this art. At least in the styles I've been exposed to, there are only two knee strike techniques, front and roundhouse. Variations are limited only by the Karate-ka's imagination, but they're all arguably variations of these.
Now, I wont get into the front knee strike, as by and large all striking arts that include it in their arsenal roughly do it the same way. The roundhouse knee strike, though, is a different story.
As I was taught to do it, the Karate roundhouse knee strike is performed almost exactly as 66% of a roundhouse kick, the missing 33% being the extension of the lower leg to strike with the foot. I.e.: The strike is chambered by bringing the leg up more or less into the "dog peeing" ( wink ) position. The strike comes from simultaneously pivoting the body inboard, using hip rotation, while bringing in the knee to the body's centerline by using the muscles of the thigh and abdomen. So some large, strong muscles are utilized to power the strike. Among favored targets are the sides of the opponent's body.
So all of the above was to get to this point: I've been intrigued for some time by a knee strike I've seen used in matches by Muay Thai and MMA fighters. Not ever having set foot in an MT or MMA gym, I can only go by what I've seen as to how it's meant to be executed. But it seems that the proper form is to bring the knee up close to the opponent's body, similar to chambering the leg for a front kick. More or less at the apex of the movement, the knee is brought to the strike by pivoting the body inwards and using the adductor muscles of the thighs to bring the knee to the centerline of the body, striking the sides of the opponent'. What's different about this technique compared to the Karate roundhouse knee strike is that the knee and thigh are held vertically while hitting, instead of being brought in more/less horizontally or obliquely. It seems to me that this MT/MMA technique is powered in the main by comparatively smaller, weaker muscles and that its power suffers in consequence (see the attached vid.).



So here's where I'd like to get y'all's opinion: Is there an advantage so solid to striking an opponent's sides a la MT/MMA that it compensates for the substantially less powerful resulting blow, as compared to the Karate roundhouse knee? Thoughts?
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#435903 - 07/02/13 12:17 PM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: MAGon]
cxt Offline
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Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA

Maybe its a matter of function......maybe.

Perhaps the MMA style knee strike--as described above-is more in the manner of "softening up" the guy. Most of the MMA/MT are in seriously hard condition and single knee is unlikely to work. But hit them with it a lot and the effects are compounded.

Maybe its a target of opportunity--you hit what's available?

Maybe its a question of timing? I've seen guys run right into a jab and cause themselves more damage than the jab alone.

Good question!

Sorry I don't have better thoughts right now. Still pretty early here. smile
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#435904 - 07/02/13 02:52 PM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: MAGon]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
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Loc: Miami, Fl.
Hi, cxt.
Yes to all you wrote. But what I'm noticing is that you get the same from the Karate knee strike, but with more power. There's a slight advantage for the MT/MMA technique in a body to body clinch. But even that's negated by being able to manhandle the opponent to where you want him, then using a roundhouse knee.
So I'm still left wondering why sacrifice the power?
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#435905 - 07/03/13 05:30 AM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: MAGon]
Dobbersky Offline
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For me Knee strike is a finishing technique.

Coming from both Muay Thai and Ashihara, the knee is indeed one of the most used in our arsonary of weapons.

a well trained knee and well placed knee has been tested as power ratio being similar to be hit by a car traveling a 40 mile per hour.

anywhere in kata, a raised leg is either a knee strike or a shin block or both
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#435906 - 07/03/13 08:21 AM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: MAGon]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Possibly it might be to do with speed; it might be quicker to throw a series of knees MT/MMA style than to throw a series of knees Karate style. As you say, you can't count on a single knee doing the trick, so perhaps it might be more with the idea of a cumulative effect?? I don't know for sure. Do you have a video example of karate knee?
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#435907 - 07/03/13 08:28 AM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: Dobbersky]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: Dobbersky
Coming from both Muay Thai and Ashihara, the knee is indeed one of the most used in our arsonary of weapons.


Hi, Ken.
I knew about Ashihara, not about MT. So you're a good source to address my question to: Why does MT sacrifice the power of the Karate roundhouse knee strike in favor of the weaker technique shown on the vid.?
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Just when you think something is foolproof, they come out with a new and improved type of fool.

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#435908 - 07/04/13 06:00 AM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: MAGon]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 905
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
That Technique which is more of a "Side bump" knee strike is quite an effective technique if done properly, I've bruised/cracked ribs with this technique in competition before, you aim for the floating ribs.

I think it looks weak due to the instructor not wanting to hurt his partner but it does really hurt if done properly at full speed and power.

when training in Muay thai many Camps don't train full contact all the time to prevent injury to its fighters etc.

Its only in preparation for a fight does the fighter get a "feel" of full contact to prepare them so its not a shock to get hit hard and prevent "freeze"
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#435909 - 07/04/13 01:52 PM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: Dobbersky]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Yeah, but my point being that you can get the same from the Karate roundhouse knee strike, with (worst case) the same power or much more, seeing as the Karate technique is powered by bigger, stronger muscles. So why do it as seen in the vid.?
_________________________
Just when you think something is foolproof, they come out with a new and improved type of fool.

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#435911 - 07/08/13 06:35 AM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: MAGon]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 905
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: MAGon
Yeah, but my point being that you can get the same from the Karate roundhouse knee strike, with (worst case) the same power or much more, seeing as the Karate technique is powered by bigger, stronger muscles. So why do it as seen in the vid.?


Karate as we know it today is not as it was in Okinawa or the likes. It has become a melting pot of Techniques from various influxes of different martial arts from different countries. Originally there were no kicks higher than the waist in Okinawa Te.

Now I agree to a point that the round knee is a good technique but this is for the ring and a round knee in this instance puts you off balance and more prone to a foot sweep that are commonly used in the ring with Muay Thai matches etc
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#435914 - 07/08/13 11:42 AM Re: MT/MMA knee strike. [Re: Dobbersky]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
OK. But then the same drawback is there for the MT knee strike. If you get caught with the leg up, or it's trapped, you can get swept. So again I have to wonder why, if all else is more or less equal, why do without the added power of the roundhouse knee strike of Karate?
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Just when you think something is foolproof, they come out with a new and improved type of fool.

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