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#427968 - 06/27/10 10:30 AM Striking/punching bag technique.
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Not ever having boxed, I learned to hit the speed/punching bag by watching other Karate-kas. The people I learned from would hit the bag with almost unmodified Karate punches, thrown from a guard covering the head down to the rib cage. The only differences was that these would be "lighter", with no all- out muscle contraction and force, as well as somewhat shortened. This made sense to me, in that if the purpose of the exercise is to speed up a particular movement, one needs to practice that very same movement repeatedly and at speed.
Now, watching footage of boxers in training, the way they "punch" the bag leaves me scratching my head. What I've repeatedly seen boxers do is raise their elbows to where they're practically level with their fists, then stike the bag in what I can only describe as a sort of horizontal hammer fist (tetsui). Also, the striking point seems to the edge of the fist closer to the pinky knuckle, instead of the knuckles themselves.
So here's my question: Is there some counter-intuitive reason why the way boxers do it is more effective in developing hand speed for real world strikes than just hitting the darn bag the way you'd hit an opponent in the first place? confused
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#427969 - 06/27/10 11:00 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
sstefan Offline
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Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 22
Conditioning, conditioning and again conditioning. Another reason is that they focus only on punching techniques and train them all day. They don't waist the time punching air by doing katas.
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#427970 - 06/27/10 11:35 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: sstefan]
MattJ Offline
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Miguel, I'm assuming you're talking about how boxers hit the speed bag? Yeah, I have no idea about that, either. I've heard it's more of a shoulder conditioning exercise than anything directly related to punching technique, but I don't really see the point, myself.

Plyometric rebounding (ie; retracting strikes quickly off the target) seems to have helped my speed a lot.

I don't consider speed-bag training very useful.
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#427972 - 06/27/10 12:11 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Miguel, I'm assuming you're talking about how boxers hit the speed bag?


Yup, exactly.

Originally Posted By: MattJ
I've heard it's more of a shoulder conditioning exercise than anything directly related to punching technique,...


Huh???

Originally Posted By: MattJ
...but I don't really see the point, myself.


If so, I'd also be of the opinion that it's a waste of time. There are much better ways to condition the shoulders, and IMO it does nothing useful for one's punching.

Originally Posted By: MattJ
I don't consider speed-bag training very useful.


In isolation, perhaps. Combined with other bag work (double-ended bag, heavy bag) IMO it's very good indeed in developing speed and coordination, PROVIDED you're punching in a rational manner.
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#427974 - 06/27/10 12:20 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: sstefan]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: sstefan
Conditioning, conditioning and again conditioning. Another reason is that they focus only on punching techniques and train them all day. They don't waist the time punching air by doing katas.


Yeah, but what's the point of that particular method? There are better ways of conditioning than that.
As to kata, I don't think much of them either (The traditional ones, that is. Enshin-ryu's and the ones you see in some Ashihara dojos are a different kettle of fish), so you get no argument from me. But as to punching air, boxers do quite a bit of (And swear by) shadow boxing. That's air punching at it's finest!
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#427980 - 06/27/10 01:03 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
sstefan Offline
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Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Miguel, I'm assuming you're talking about how boxers hit the speed bag? Yeah, I have no idea about that, either. I've heard it's more of a shoulder conditioning exercise than anything directly related to punching technique, but I don't really see the point, myself.

Plyometric rebounding (ie; retracting strikes quickly off the target) seems to have helped my speed a lot.

I don't consider speed-bag training very useful.


Speed bag improves striking precision and ofcourse speed punching, in my opinion the speed bag training is useful. The heavy bag is stationary while the speed bag is very mobile.
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#427988 - 06/27/10 05:31 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: sstefan]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Yeah, I don't agree. Speed bag punching bears about as much resemblance to the mechanics of real punching as doing kata in the air does. The precision and speed it grants will be of little practical value, IMHO.
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#427994 - 06/27/10 07:57 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
He has a point though, Matt. The speed bag is a mobile target. The difficulty people have with it in the beginning is precisely being able to hit that moving target. He called it targeting, I called it coordination, but same concept. Dependng on the drills you work on it, you can make it harder to hit, and therefore enhance your ability to connect with something like an opponent's head as he weaves.
I'll agree that, by itself, that's not earth shattering. Add the double-ended bag (An even more mobile target) and the heavy bag, and you have some worthwhile skill-honing going on.
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#428001 - 06/28/10 09:46 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Heh, the disagreement train is on a roll with me! Miguel, while the speed bag does move, hitting it is about rhythm more than aim. Keep a steady cadence whilst aiming at the same spot, and it's not really all that difficult. Rhythm is not even a quality that is very useful in fighting, except in the idea of being able to break the opponent's.

The double end bag is much more about aim, IMHO, and has the benefit of forcing one to work defense at the same time.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#428006 - 06/28/10 01:08 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Hah! In the inmortal words of Big John McCarthy: "Let's get it on!"
Dude, you're right, you're aiming at the same spot. But the trick is hitting it when the bag's there!
Granted, once you get the rhythm it's more a matter of maintining it. I've gotten to the point where I can take my eyes off the bag for a time and not miss... But only for so long. You need to coordinate hand with eye. I'll grant you it gets easier with time. Then again, that's the purpose!
I will agree that the double-ended striking bag is better for targeting/ hand-eye coordination.
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