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#435822 - 06/10/13 04:57 PM The Respect of your Instructor.
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 95
Loc: UK
How important is this?

Do you feel you could just cower quietly in the corner, work hard and slip out at the end without his respect?

Or do you feel it is too important to view your learning simply as customer service once it has been paid for?

I ask because I am currently in a tangle with 2 clubs and feel that my instructor of approx 2 years is disappointed with me.

The background being that I left `my club` due to injury and recently enquired about joining fees. while waiting to hear back I found a super cheap club where the instructor just wants to keep his doors open.
Joined it then heard back from old club. I am currently attending both and have been open and honest with both but feel the change and have lost his eye contact and words of greeting.

I know what to do but wonder how many of you could attend a club where you have now become a number, having once been a respected patron.
_________________________
Those are my principles, and if you don`t like them...well, I have others.

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#435824 - 06/10/13 05:24 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Jabber

How do YOU view your training?

If its "just business" to YOU then why would you care what the dude/dudette that works for you thinks about you?

I don't really care what the guy that paints my house thinks about me--its a BUSINESS transaction--I pay my good hard earned money for the delivery of a marketed service.

If that is how you feel then IMO why should you care about what the teacher thinks/feels?

Unless your teachers "respect" translates to better teaching--not sure that I would worry.

Now if you see your training as a "old school" master-disciple kinda thing then you might view the loss of the teachers respect to be a serious problem.

Is the teacher worthy of said respect to start with?

In the case/s you list--which one has better instruction?

"Super cheap" IMO is sometimes, not always but SOMETIMES not the best choice in the long run.

If it were me, I would be thinking about it from a quality of instruction POV and not worry to much about "respect."

IMO smile



Edited by cxt (06/10/13 05:25 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#435825 - 06/11/13 04:33 AM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 893
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Agree with CXT

Just need to add, are they the same style of Martial Arts that you are learning from both Instructors?

Regards Cheapest, I charge just enough to cover the costs as I've ran a not for profit Dojo for over a decade. But I don't consider mine as being lower quality. I'm not a belt factory and will fail or delay gradings if the student isn't upto standards.

If you are training in the same style at both Dojo's I would suggest picking 1 of the to and concentrate on that as there will be issues occuring due to the suttle differences in some or many of the techniques.

Does the Original (Please "Respect me") Instructor know about the other school you attend, as this could be a factor in it?

Also, I find if an Instructor can't give his/her time to his students then I he's lost touch with the art he/she teaches and is more in tune with the business side of it.

In the end, no matter how much guidance you get here, you need to be happy with your decision as to where you go from here, but accept the path you choose and enjoy your journey
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#435826 - 06/11/13 05:38 AM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 893
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Just to add (borrowing CXT's points- amended ofcourse)

Also as an Instructor:

Do you portray yourself as a worthy Sensei of said respect to start with?
Are you humble and peaceful or do you come across as arrogant and cocky etc.? Consider it as are you a Miyagi Sensei or a CobraKai Sensei?

How do YOU view your students training?

If its "just business" to YOU then why would you care what the dude/dudette that trains with you thinks about you?

Its a 2 way thing, an instructor can feel betrayed as if he/she has dedicated their time to your training then you move on and look elsewhere it can be a big hit to the "ego" of the Instructor (although for me as long as it doesn't affect the individual's skill level I'm actually honoured)
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#435827 - 06/11/13 06:22 AM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 95
Loc: UK
Hi Dobbersky & CXT,

Thanks so much for you replies.

To me personally respect counts enormously as I need to be fully relaxed and able to focus entirely on the technique being taught. I am also of the `old school` train of thought.

I know what I need to do, I just balk at the thought of it as numbers are vital to one teacher to keep his doors open.

Both teachers are excellent. The first offered me concessions on prices (not currently working) so I fully understand how I have caused offence.

Due to constraints both time and financial I can, and only will, attend one - it will be my original school.

It DOES affect my training as they are two different MA so this is also an issue, as if time, money and respect were not enough!

I know what to do. I will do it but did want to hear what others feel (this would not alter what I feel I just wanted to contribute a thread). Its not an interesting conversation to have with a friend who does not study MA as they cannot see any dilemma or issue of respect.

Again thanks for your comments and it would be great to hear from other instructors as Dobbersky has added.





Edited by jabber (06/11/13 06:24 AM)
_________________________
Those are my principles, and if you don`t like them...well, I have others.

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#435830 - 06/11/13 11:15 AM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
First thing I’d say is that I see no reason for your instructor not to show you respect for joining another club. You say that you have been open and honest about what you want and where you have been training, therefor I think your Sensei is out of order in being disrespectful. Sounds like you have shown respect and also dedicated 2 years of MA training with them, paying all fees, trusting and training hard no doubt.

I actually think that it is very important to have the respect of your instructor and can’t personally imagine training long-term without it.

I think the nature of MA (and sport in general) often requires a mutual respect to get the most out of both parties. For example we often hear of football coaches getting the sack as they have ‘lost the dressing room’.

This ties in to a motivational POV too. Will your sensei get that extra 10% out of you when tired etc.

Cxt said

Quote:
I don't really care what the guy that paints my house thinks about me--its a BUSINESS transaction--I pay my good hard earned money for the delivery of a marketed service


2 problems here.
If the guy who painted your house was disrespectful, would you really be a returning customer. Most business at least attempt to have good customer service.

Secondly MA is a hobby or a passion. You should be going to enjoy yourself There are enough clubs around to find a place with good people.

For me respect from your Sensei is very important, sets an example to everyone in the class, allows a good and safe learning environment, allows an enjoyable experience.

Jabber, out of interest can you explain why you decided to go with the sensei who does not respect you?


Edited by aplant (06/11/13 11:17 AM)

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#435832 - 06/11/13 12:05 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 95
Loc: UK
Hi Aplant,

I have chosen my first instructor because he had offered me reductions/free classes and I had been the one to disrespect him by paying money elsewhere.

I wanted to use my situation to start a thread of my own - taking a leaf out of another`s book and attempting to contribute as opposed to just reading.

My sensei has shown me no disrespect, he is above that sort of behaviour. Simply things are not as smiley as before and I understand why.
_________________________
Those are my principles, and if you don`t like them...well, I have others.

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#435834 - 06/11/13 12:16 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
aplant

That statement was in context of the question being asked by Jabber.

I tend to agree with you.....but to be honest....if we are talking BUSINESS...then no....if the guy that paints my house is good enough at his job...if he is better than the other painters around....then I really don't care about his attitude. He is there to paint my house---not to be my buddy.

I work with all kinds of people that I would not have over for Sunday brunch or invite out for drinks....but they are extremely good at their jobs.

Your right though, good customer service is important and disrespect is BAD customer service.



Edited by cxt (06/11/13 12:17 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#435835 - 06/11/13 12:20 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Jabber

"I chose my first instructor because he offered me reductions/free classes."

I'll say it again, not sure that is a good reason to choose a school/teacher.

How is this persons teaching skills and level of instruction?
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#435836 - 06/11/13 12:28 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 95
Loc: UK
Sorry I`m always nipping away from this and not giving it the time needed to explain fully. I do apologise.

Teaching skills and instruction are impeccable hence the need to return in the first place. I might add that my injury was done at home...not in the dojo.
_________________________
Those are my principles, and if you don`t like them...well, I have others.

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#435840 - 06/11/13 05:30 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
jabber

Ok...cool.

Thank you.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#435846 - 06/12/13 08:50 AM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
Jabber,

Quote:
My sensei has shown me no disrespect, he is above that sort of behaviour


That is my misunderstanding. I thought that you were saying that after training at another club you were left with cold receptions, felt like just a number and had to cower in the corner without your instructors respect. Was this was an example?

I think it is a very good topic as I (we both) feel that respect is a very important part in MA training. I wonder to what degree respect has to be earned by the STUDENT?

I remember ‘old school’ stories of pupils having to wait outside the dojo for weeks in the cold before being invited in and allowed to train for free. How true or common place this was I don’t know.

Now-a-days at least, clubs often actively seeking members and with fee’s often high (as discussed here Value for money if you have an opinion), surely the instructor ‘owes’ the student a higher level of initial respect.

This of course would have to be balanced out with decisions of what/how to teach a student (e.g. higher risk methods etc)

I do disagree with you on one point:

Quote:
I had been the one to disrespect him by paying money elsewhere.


I do not think it is disrespectful to train at another school, pay someone else for training or indeed to choose to leave an instructor to train elsewhere – especially if you are honest and upfront about your actions.

Good topic.

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#435853 - 06/12/13 02:10 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 95
Loc: UK
Yes Aplant, the cowering in the corner was an example in the hope of getting a thread started.
Personally I could not learn in a dojo where I have no respect from my instructor. I would lose interest very soon and move on.

As it stands I have lost some of his interest but know that I can pull this back by keeping a low profile and working hard.

I agree with you re training elsewhere is not disrespectful (as long as they are two different styles) but the issue here is that my original teacher offered me a free pass unaware that I was spending (albeit is a very small amount of) money elsewhere. I totally understand how that is wrong.

I love the old school story of students waiting outside!

The only story I have regarding required loyalty in the extreme is about my first (mc)dojo.
Our sensei started to award preference to members who joined the church that he had become a part of.
He lost over 10 members in one day with a mass walkout - thankfully I was away already and didn't have to witness that.

In response to his actions (there were many issues about quick belt awards in return for unpaid work) a few members set up an anti- mcdojo website to warn others...

Surely there should be a tv drama based in a mcdojo. Would beat the hell outta some of the stuff shown on Tv!
_________________________
Those are my principles, and if you don`t like them...well, I have others.

Top
#435856 - 06/12/13 09:39 PM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Respect is a two-way street.
I have had the opportunity to be a student in three different aikido dojo.

Six years with an instructor who drilled the techniques as listed in the test form.
I truly learned in the muscle memory sense of the word.
A certain attack and aikido "happened" (I loved it) ( He moved on )

13 years with a "traditional" instructor who demonstrated endless variations,
It was our job as students to figure out how these variations were related.
He came highly recommended. After 4 years I gave up hope of learning
anything but patience.
His was the only truly "Good" school in town. I still go there for the camaraderie.

Three years now at a quality dojo with a quality instructor. He explains the moves and sticks with the student until each is able to perform the technique.

I wish I had had the choice when I started in 1994 and that I had understood the various differences in theories of instruction.



Edited by iaibear (06/12/13 09:47 PM)

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#435858 - 06/13/13 04:58 AM Re: The Respect of your Instructor. [Re: jabber]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 893
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Turning into a good thread

Respect is a 2 way thing, training at another Dojo along side you core style is not a reason for disrespect.

The mass walk out to me is an issue as to what kind of Instructor your Sensei is. there must have been some kinds of discussions prior to this happening.

For me I keep my Dojo separate from my work life, my family life and my Religious and political views as I am there to teach karate NOT dictate where they work, who they are in relationships with, how they worship or who they vote for
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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