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#435762 - 04/16/13 10:46 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: harlan]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< Oyo stresses utility, while bunkai stresses analysis. >>
Posted by David "Shinzen" Nelson

I interpret this as:
Bunkai stresses Analysis (the basic moves)
Oyo stresses Utility (the variations)

Given a choice, I would prefer to learn the basic moves first and then learn to vary them according to use. But that's just me.

This does explain a lot. Thanks for sharing

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#435765 - 04/17/13 11:31 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
I think that most everyone feel that they DO apply kata. HOW it is applied is where I feel there may be debate.

Although it may be worth asking if anyone here practices kata for the sake of practicing kata alone. And why? I actually think that there are good reasons to practice kata without application.

Quote:
Given a choice, I would prefer to learn the basic moves first and then learn to vary them according to use. But that's just me.


I’m not quite sure I understand:
Do you mean you want to learn to perform a kata very well before learning function?
Or, do you mean you like to know the ‘textbook’ function of the movements before learning variants?
Or do you mean something else? :-)
Do you think you could expand on this; perhaps with an example?

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#435766 - 04/17/13 12:15 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
aplant

My only real issue with bunkai is that like anything else, once you learn what a given move "means" you have to practice it. And many applications of the kata require a partner to work with---and all to often many people don't have a regular/reliable practice partner.

I was always taught that anything that you can do in kata you shold be able to do on a heavy bag (more of less) so I often pull the techiniques "out" of the kata for haevy bag practice.

I find the kata a good way to keep the PRINCIPLES of the style and techniques used in practice--a kind of mneumonic device if you will.

Plus they are a lot of fun. smile

Wouldn't say that I practice kata for the sake of doing so however. I--speakig just for me here. And feel free to disagree wink

I find value in the practice of kata, I see gains in its practice and I think they are useful....TO ME.

If others don't?

Then don't do them.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#435767 - 04/17/13 04:28 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: aplant]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Originally Posted By: aplant
Although it may be worth asking if anyone here practices kata for the sake of practicing kata alone. And why? I actually think that there are good reasons to practice kata without application.

Quote:
Given a choice, I would prefer to learn the basic moves first and then learn to vary them according to use. But that's just me.


I’m not quite sure I understand:
Do you mean you want to learn to perform a kata very well before learning function?
Or, do you mean you like to know the ‘textbook’ function of the movements before learning variants?
Or do you mean something else? :-)
Do you think you could expand on this; perhaps with an example?


When I practice iaido it is always with kata. Every kata I practice has a specific bunkai. This is a convenient way for me to remember dozens of sequences. I lack a sparring partner to do kumitachi. Besides, metal blades can be dangerous and have a way of breaking at the most inappropriate moment.

As for aikido, I have spent the last twelve years with a very highly recommended sensei. This gentleman believes firmly in teaching techniques by demonstrating variations of any specific technique. There was never an explanation nor any reference to which variations were related to each other. It was up to the student to discover what the basic technique was. Keep in mind that these variations and their relatives were scattered over months. Because I could not remember a brand new variation out the door, I learned very little.
Basically that is why I cannot give you any examples.

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#435788 - 05/20/13 02:03 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
No, it was not. Although I've gone to other-style seminars and have trained in spot with other martial artists, the only style aside from Isshinryu I seriously took (for a few months) was Shotokan.
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