FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 73 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn, Ron_Cooley, businns
22902 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 12
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
TaekwonDoFan 2
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Iaido movements speed
by TooNice
04/14/14 01:47 PM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
Today at 11:35 AM
centerline concepts
by Dobbersky
07/18/14 06:14 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:38 AM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forget all that health stuff
by TaekwonDoFan
06/29/14 03:18 AM
Forum Stats
22902 Members
36 Forums
35563 Topics
432450 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#435701 - 03/08/13 07:55 AM Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how?
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 905
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
All

I myself love Bunkai and Oyo. I practice my kata but with the fact all kata have reasons for them.

We have 16/7 Kata in my Syllabus, If I had a Choice there would be no more than 10.

If you practice Bunkai/Oyo, do you practice it against "karate" attacks?

For me I believe that there is no wrong Bunkai for a Kata BUT I just can't accept the "karate" attacks that are practiced around the world. NOBODY steps forward and punches ever so why teach it?

I use my Kata as a form of Stand up grappling more akin to Chin Na or Okinawan Kenpo than typical Mainstream Karate & Jujitsu.

I know many schools especially Korean Arts practice Kata/Hyungs/Poomsae/Tul/Forms just for the purpose of passing that particular grade, with no thought as to why it was created in the first place. Some Schools even have 40+ kata but can't practice Bunkai because they have too many things to practice.

The Old masters probably only knew 4-6 kata total but its the younger generations adding this and that from the various older masters that have given the situation as it is now.

Nobody questioned theire Instructor as to the why, what, when, how etc of the techniques they were taught unless the master Trusted their student enough to teach it. Therefore with a gap of a generation at least the new Masters are rediscovering the Bunkai/Oyo of their kata using other Styles like Jujitsu, Judo, Ken(m)po and Chin Na (kung Fu) to discover what is within their own

What are your thoughts on this?
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#435702 - 03/09/13 09:31 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Hey Ken

Not a karate person per se, like every man and his dog I did a few classes way back when. That said I do enjoy reading martial arts history.

The old Chinese saying goes "The further you go from the source of the river, the muddier the water gets". As you mention, the divergent interest in karate meant that a lot of ideas and philosophies were added for different reasons, not always to do with martial effectiveness.

It is well documented the effects Japanese militarisation had on Shotokan. Given that Shotokan was the parent of so many other popular styles of karate (and TKD), inevitably the residue of those divergent interests still exist. Another problem for karate, is, as you say, the culture (as with many TMA) to not question what was going on or why things were done in a certain way.

When you combine all that, you get 21st century karate: Kata for the sake of kata and people having to re-construct what went on in order to make their karate more relevant to what it is they want to use karate for.

In short, it seems a bit of a mess lol!


Edited by Prizewriter (03/09/13 09:31 AM)
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#435703 - 03/09/13 09:34 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
In iaido I practice using Bunkai for every kata. There are dozens of them.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is/are Oyo?

Top
#435704 - 03/09/13 10:29 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
iai

Not sure that bunkai and oyo really apply to iaido etc. My limited understanding is that they are more used by karate folks.

Also pretty sure that there is more than a couple of ways to define the terms.

In the goju I practice "bunkai" means a 2 person exercise wwhere nearly every movement from a given kata is practiced with a resistant/fairly resistant partner--its a "set" series of movement but they are throwing hard punches and kicks that must be blocked/avoided or your going to get pounded. Its BOTH sides of a given kata. My guess its look pretty similer to a paired partener kata in iaido.

In many koryu weapon schools much of the practice is done like that--2 person paired practice--but its usually called "kata." Where "kata" in karate usually means a "single person individual exercise." Or something like that.

So I was taught that the "bunkai" was a "textbook" application of a given movement in the kata. The "oyo" version is--as I was taught--[b]much[/b] less "textbook" and more individual, more persoanlly "practical" application of the same movement.

As an example, if you have seen the goju kata Seisan, there is movement that "looks" like a hooking block---which it is. That might be viewed as the "bunkai" but it can easily be used as a stight thrust finger thrust to the EYES-hooking back from such a strike--that might be viewed as the "oyo" version.

Could easily be wrong--just what I was taught.

Sorry for the length. Pretty early in morning--not sure any of this is making sense. smile


Edited by cxt (03/09/13 10:33 AM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#435705 - 03/09/13 04:19 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
I was hesitant to discuss kata because they are performed using, in my case, a bladed weapon, not a bokken or a shinai.

I practice kata using an iaito. My local gym lets me use their aerobics room, hard wood floors, mirrors all around.

As I said, there are dozens of kata. Because of the physical danger that could be involved, all my kata are practiced using bunkai. The attacker is imaginary, but very real to me.

A bunkai will determine if I am sitting or standing, what direction the attack will come from, how many attackers there are, where they are and their moves relative to my position.

They started it and, according to the script, I finish it.


Edited by iaibear (03/09/13 04:34 PM)

Top
#435707 - 03/10/13 06:28 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Kata in Judo is essentially just practicing a single pre-determined throw or lock. Dangerous techniques, e.g. standing joint locks, punches and kicks which are banned in randori are still taught in kata. Also, Judo kata are very short, only a few movements ending with a throw, choke or joint lock.

There's really no need to imagine a partner since all kata are performed with a real partner (who usually take turns to perform techniques as Uke and Tori).


Edited by Leo_E_49 (03/10/13 06:29 AM)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

Top
#435708 - 03/10/13 09:21 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
I have used Google to find Oyo. No definitive definition.
Is Oyo a person, an organization or a technique?
Just call me nosy,

Top
#435709 - 03/10/13 05:03 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA

Top
#435710 - 03/11/13 12:08 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: harlan]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Thank you, Harlan.
Not being too fluent in interpretation, I figure that Bunkai means what the moves represent (like a script), while Oyo includes possible; variations.
Am I getting closer?

Top
#435711 - 03/11/13 06:19 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Originally Posted By: Leo_E_49
Kata in Judo is essentially just practicing a single pre-determined throw or lock.

There's really no need to imagine a partner since all kata are performed with a real partner (who usually take turns to perform techniques as Uke and Tori).


Ditto with Aikido Kata too.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#435712 - 03/11/13 11:36 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 905
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Depending on the Spelling it can be either Oyo or Oyho but please see below

Ohyo kumite is the application of kihon waza or a section of kata applied in a fighting encounter to examine specific core principles at work. Its function is to physically attest the application drawn from specific parts of a kata using the physical dialogue of torimi and ukemi practice. When applied to kata, the analytical practice known as kaisetsu in wado or bunkai in Okinawan systems, seeks to uncover in more functional and graphic detail the allusive pragmatism of self defence and protection from this wellspring of kata’s physical manifesto.

http://www.wadoworld.com/technical/ohyo/ohyo.html
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#435713 - 03/11/13 11:53 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
So THAT is why I have never been able to keep track of what my Aikido sensei has been demonstrating. Nice to know, finally.
Won't help my learning, tho.
I need a base technique before I can absorb variations on it.

Top
#435717 - 03/12/13 07:20 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
Hi Dobbersky
Quote:
I practice my kata but with the fact all kata have reasons for them.


The assumption that traditional kata practicing karate-ka MUST make.

The truth is that there are no good reason and explanations given in Karate’s history.

Which commonly leads to….

Quote:
I believe that there is no wrong Bunkai for a Kata


Or, ‘what I am practicing is not, wrong’ so ‘my reason is right’

Yet…..

Quote:
I just can't accept the "karate" attacks that are practiced


Bad reason?

Quote:
many schools especially Korean Arts practice Kata/Hyungs/Poomsae/Tul/Forms just for the purpose of passing that particular grade


Bad reason?

Quote:
no thought as to why it was created in the first place


Think about it and you can come up with almost any answer you like.

Most have thought about it but the answer doesn’t fit your own.
E.g. kata is a way of remembering lots of techniques, a way of moving meditation, a way to gently keep fit in old age etc.

Quote:
at least the new Masters are rediscovering the Bunkai/Oyo of their kata using other Styles like Jujitsu, Judo, Ken(m)po and Chin Na (kung Fu) to discover what is within their own


‘Rediscover’? RE-INVENT is more accurate.

As there is no right or wrong, you will find faces in the clouds and justify your ‘reason’.

cxt
Quote:
So I was taught that the "bunkai" was a "textbook" application of a given movement in the kata.


Are there "textbook" applications? If looking at early karate applications, do they satisfy modern methods?

Prizewriter
Quote:
In short, it seems a bit of a mess


Agreed!

Top
#435718 - 03/12/13 07:36 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: aplant]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 905
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: aplant
Hi Dobbersky
Quote:
I practice my kata but with the fact all kata have reasons for them.


The assumption that traditional kata practicing karate-ka MUST make.

The truth is that there are no good reason and explanations given in Karate’s history.

Which commonly leads to….

Quote:
I believe that there is no wrong Bunkai for a Kata


Or, ‘what I am practicing is not, wrong’ so ‘my reason is right’

Yet…..

Quote:
I just can't accept the "karate" attacks that are practiced


Bad reason?

Quote:
many schools especially Korean Arts practice Kata/Hyungs/Poomsae/Tul/Forms just for the purpose of passing that particular grade


Bad reason?

Quote:
no thought as to why it was created in the first place


Think about it and you can come up with almost any answer you like.

Most have thought about it but the answer doesn’t fit your own.
E.g. kata is a way of remembering lots of techniques, a way of moving meditation, a way to gently keep fit in old age etc.

Quote:
at least the new Masters are rediscovering the Bunkai/Oyo of their kata using other Styles like Jujitsu, Judo, Ken(m)po and Chin Na (kung Fu) to discover what is within their own


‘Rediscover’? RE-INVENT is more accurate.

As there is no right or wrong, you will find faces in the clouds and justify your ‘reason’.

cxt
Quote:
So I was taught that the "bunkai" was a "textbook" application of a given movement in the kata.


Are there "textbook" applications? If looking at early karate applications, do they satisfy modern methods?

Prizewriter
Quote:
In short, it seems a bit of a mess


Agreed!


With respect Mr "Aplant" I don't need my posts checked for grammar or content etc. Rather than pick it apart can you not just add something useful to the thread, thanks
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#435719 - 03/12/13 07:52 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
Oh and to answer your questions directly! laugh

I am happiest thinking of kata bunkai as responses to common violence. This is possibly due to my old karate clubs focus on self defence. I always enjoyed kata but have to acknowledge the 'poetic license' I allow when applying bunkai.

I too do not 'like' karate attack based bunkai. I acknowledge I would be a hypocrite to say it was wrong or I was right though. I can though see reasons why it is practiced. For one, it allows for safe and basic practice. Also it should be noted that not only 'low competence' places teach bunkai in this manner. I have seen it taught at very respectable karate dojo's.

Interesting that you say nobody steps forward and punches, so why teach it, when that exact movement is so prevalent in kata.

My main problem is with kata being 'heart' of karate, even though it's purpose and application are so vague and in fact unknown. (I'm sure some will claim this its strength!!!!!!!)

Top
#435720 - 03/12/13 08:01 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
While I'm still here.
Quote:
With respect Mr "Aplant" I don't need my posts checked for grammar or content etc. Rather than pick it apart can you not just add something useful to the thread, thanks


I did not check your grammar!? confused

If you don't want people to comment on the content of your posts, on what do you want them to comment?

I feel I did contribute something. Re-read perhaps?

With Respect.

Top
#435721 - 03/12/13 08:43 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: aplant]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 905
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: aplant
Oh and to answer your questions directly! laugh

I am happiest thinking of kata bunkai as responses to common violence. This is possibly due to my old karate clubs focus on self defence. I always enjoyed kata but have to acknowledge the 'poetic license' I allow when applying bunkai.

I too do not 'like' karate attack based bunkai. I acknowledge I would be a hypocrite to say it was wrong or I was right though. I can though see reasons why it is practiced. For one, it allows for safe and basic practice. Also it should be noted that not only 'low competence' places teach bunkai in this manner. I have seen it taught at very respectable karate dojo's.

Interesting that you say nobody steps forward and punches, so why teach it, when that exact movement is so prevalent in kata.

My main problem is with kata being 'heart' of karate, even though it's purpose and application are so vague and in fact unknown. (I'm sure some will claim this its strength!!!!!!!)



Now I enjoyed reading this post, good points put forward

I don't teach the step forward and punch Karate, I'm Ashihara Karate not Shotokan or Shukokai etc. Also I don't believe the more kata youi have the better your style, I think the less the better.

Regards to Kata being the heart of Karate I would say yes it is but I think the Kihon or Basics are the heart of Karate as without them Kata is unworkable.

No I missed what style you study so would love to know what context your point comes from
Originally Posted By: aplant
My main problem is with kata being 'heart' of karate, even though it's purpose and application are so vague and in fact unknown. (I'm sure some will claim this its strength!!!!!!!)



I myself have used aspects of MY Ashihara Kata on many occasions in street situations and as they are Jissen (Real Combat) Kata they are perfectly suited although its through the study of traditional kata and bunkai which has allowed me to look at the Ashihara Kata in a different light so this is why I would say Kata is the heart of Karate. I teach Karate for the streets not for trophies
thanks
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#435731 - 03/14/13 12:30 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
Quote:
I don't teach the step forward and punch Karate, I'm Ashihara Karate not Shotokan or Shukokai etc.


I don’t have any experience with Ashihara karate. I see that it has a Kyokushin background, which do have kata’s with ‘stepping punches'.

Quote:
Also I don't believe the more kata youi have the better your style, I think the less the better.


I hear this a lot from TMAist. A Bruce Lee 'less is more' hang up perhaps.
You have 16 kata on your syllabus and would like no more than 10?
Sounds like you could easily cut down.

Quote:
Regards to Kata being the heart of Karate I would say yes it is but I think the Kihon or Basics are the heart of Karate as without them Kata is unworkable….. I would say Kata is the heart of Karate. I teach Karate for the streets not for trophies


Hmm? Lets forget the heart of karate thing for now :-)

I would have thought you or your students would take part in tournaments with the styles Kyokushin background?

Quote:
I myself have used aspects of MY Ashihara Kata on many occasions in street situations and as they are Jissen (Real Combat) Kata they are perfectly suited although its through the study of traditional kata and bunkai which has allowed me to look at the Ashihara Kata in a different light…..


As I said I don’t know Ashihara, but looked up a youtube video of ‘jissen kata sono ichi’(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw05MXzJoTE).

I don’t know if this is that same (or similar) kata you are referring to, so please correct me if it is not.
There seems to me little room for interpretation in this form. I assume it is relatively recently invented? There is presumably good first-hand information about application and intent from the ‘creator’.

Again, excuse my ignorance of Ashihara, but if this is a ‘real combat’ kata, what are your other kata?

Quote:
… although its through the study of traditional kata and bunkai which has allowed me to look at the Ashihara Kata in a different light…..


Very interesting. With regards to your thread title, how did you go about studying the bunkai of traditional kata?

Top
#435758 - 04/15/13 03:03 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: iaibear]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
That's my interpretation, too, iaibear. I've also heard the word "hinka" to describe a middle ground between bunkai and oyo.

In Isshinryu we are strongly encouraged to ask questions and come up with new bunkai/oyo. After all - as my sensei puts it - we aren't trying to build robots. Without bunkai and oyo, you've just learned a dance.
_________________________

Top
#435760 - 04/16/13 09:54 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Ironfoot]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 905
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Ironfoot
That's my interpretation, too, iaibear. I've also heard the word "hinka" to describe a middle ground between bunkai and oyo.

In Isshinryu we are strongly encouraged to ask questions and come up with new bunkai/oyo. After all - as my sensei puts it - we aren't trying to build robots. Without bunkai and oyo, you've just learned a dance.


Ironfoot, Was it you who trained with Brad, an Ashihara USA Karateka, a few years back?
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#435762 - 04/16/13 10:46 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: harlan]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< Oyo stresses utility, while bunkai stresses analysis. >>
Posted by David "Shinzen" Nelson

I interpret this as:
Bunkai stresses Analysis (the basic moves)
Oyo stresses Utility (the variations)

Given a choice, I would prefer to learn the basic moves first and then learn to vary them according to use. But that's just me.

This does explain a lot. Thanks for sharing

Top
#435765 - 04/17/13 11:31 AM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
I think that most everyone feel that they DO apply kata. HOW it is applied is where I feel there may be debate.

Although it may be worth asking if anyone here practices kata for the sake of practicing kata alone. And why? I actually think that there are good reasons to practice kata without application.

Quote:
Given a choice, I would prefer to learn the basic moves first and then learn to vary them according to use. But that's just me.


I’m not quite sure I understand:
Do you mean you want to learn to perform a kata very well before learning function?
Or, do you mean you like to know the ‘textbook’ function of the movements before learning variants?
Or do you mean something else? :-)
Do you think you could expand on this; perhaps with an example?

Top
#435766 - 04/17/13 12:15 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
aplant

My only real issue with bunkai is that like anything else, once you learn what a given move "means" you have to practice it. And many applications of the kata require a partner to work with---and all to often many people don't have a regular/reliable practice partner.

I was always taught that anything that you can do in kata you shold be able to do on a heavy bag (more of less) so I often pull the techiniques "out" of the kata for haevy bag practice.

I find the kata a good way to keep the PRINCIPLES of the style and techniques used in practice--a kind of mneumonic device if you will.

Plus they are a lot of fun. smile

Wouldn't say that I practice kata for the sake of doing so however. I--speakig just for me here. And feel free to disagree wink

I find value in the practice of kata, I see gains in its practice and I think they are useful....TO ME.

If others don't?

Then don't do them.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#435767 - 04/17/13 04:28 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: aplant]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Originally Posted By: aplant
Although it may be worth asking if anyone here practices kata for the sake of practicing kata alone. And why? I actually think that there are good reasons to practice kata without application.

Quote:
Given a choice, I would prefer to learn the basic moves first and then learn to vary them according to use. But that's just me.


I’m not quite sure I understand:
Do you mean you want to learn to perform a kata very well before learning function?
Or, do you mean you like to know the ‘textbook’ function of the movements before learning variants?
Or do you mean something else? :-)
Do you think you could expand on this; perhaps with an example?


When I practice iaido it is always with kata. Every kata I practice has a specific bunkai. This is a convenient way for me to remember dozens of sequences. I lack a sparring partner to do kumitachi. Besides, metal blades can be dangerous and have a way of breaking at the most inappropriate moment.

As for aikido, I have spent the last twelve years with a very highly recommended sensei. This gentleman believes firmly in teaching techniques by demonstrating variations of any specific technique. There was never an explanation nor any reference to which variations were related to each other. It was up to the student to discover what the basic technique was. Keep in mind that these variations and their relatives were scattered over months. Because I could not remember a brand new variation out the door, I learned very little.
Basically that is why I cannot give you any examples.

Top
#435788 - 05/20/13 02:03 PM Re: Bunkai/Oyo - Who does it and how? [Re: Dobbersky]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
No, it was not. Although I've gone to other-style seminars and have trained in spot with other martial artists, the only style aside from Isshinryu I seriously took (for a few months) was Shotokan.
_________________________

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga