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#435382 - 07/17/12 07:40 PM edge hand cuts
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
In aikido class today the subject came up that edge hand cuts are based on sword techniques. This is probably a topic that was chewed to shreds years before I joined this Forum. It's just that I never saw anyone approach this particular set of moves. To my best if confused memory it went like this:

You are advancing with open hands and a right lead.
He grabs you same-side behind your right wrist.
You bring your right side back slightly to absorb his attack.
Then you step forward right raising your wrist to vertical, palm facing him.
Your pressing on his palm and wrist forces his left elbow straight up.
His balance is spoiled.
You twist your hips to the left and cut down and left with both hands (like a sword cut)
He goes flying.

I keep telling myself there is no room among all these hands for any long weapon sticking out beyond your own hands

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#435383 - 07/18/12 05:41 AM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: iaibear]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
I personally think this technique is not realistic as it can't convert to a street attack.

I think Aikido is an awesome art BUT I can't agree with the "offering" of the hand etc as this wouldn't be done in street situations

Looking forward to see the responses on this

OSU
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#435384 - 07/18/12 08:26 AM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: Dobbersky]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
It was interpreted as "someone is reaching for your beer".
Or possibly, you were reaching for theirs.
Shame on you.



Edited by iaibear (07/18/12 08:28 AM)

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#435385 - 07/18/12 03:40 PM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: iaibear]
Zach_Zinn Offline
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Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: iaibear
In aikido class today the subject came up that edge hand cuts are based on sword techniques. This is probably a topic that was chewed to shreds years before I joined this Forum. It's just that I never saw anyone approach this particular set of moves. To my best if confused memory it went like this:

You are advancing with open hands and a right lead.
He grabs you same-side behind your right wrist.
You bring your right side back slightly to absorb his attack.
Then you step forward right raising your wrist to vertical, palm facing him.
Your pressing on his palm and wrist forces his left elbow straight up.
His balance is spoiled.
You twist your hips to the left and cut down and left with both hands (like a sword cut)
He goes flying.

I keep telling myself there is no room among all these hands for any long weapon sticking out beyond your own hands



It's definitely taken from a sword technique, maybe very stylized and such in Aikdio..but that's how i'd call it.

Practicality, I dunno decide for yourself.

If i'm understanding the technique right though..it is definitely a weapons thing, look up some Jujutsu videos or European martial arts stuff where they are actually holding swords..willing to bet if you looked hard enough you'd find it.

IMO most of AIkido is based on sword stuff, though it's been highly stylized, if you look at Daito Ryu or some old Koryu arts you can see the stuff it comes from.

Some sword stuff seems meant to happen when the people are stuck together and blades are not pointing directly out, not at blade range pointing at someone like a gaurd- maybe upwards or something?


Edited by Zach_Zinn (07/18/12 07:26 PM)

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#435386 - 07/19/12 11:33 AM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: Zach_Zinn]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
We recently had a seminar with Brent Yamamoto in our town. Many of his self-defense scenarios involved the knife edge coming down like the sword. We would drill with bokkens to get the feel of the technique then do it empty hand. Very effective.
If you ever have a chance to work with sensei Yamamoto don't miss it. His blending of Aikido and Okinawan karate is superb.


Mark

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#435387 - 07/19/12 03:25 PM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: gojuman59]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
One thing that used to bother me about translating from bokfen to empty hand was getting the right amount of "closer" without that 27 inches of bare stick in front of me.


Edited by iaibear (07/19/12 03:29 PM)

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#435389 - 07/20/12 08:57 AM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: iaibear]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri

I agree Iaibear. Most of my problems translating form Bokken to empty hand is distancing. Footwork has never been one of my stronger attributes. I guess that why we practice.
From my limited exposure to Aikido I was struck how well the circular footwork blends well with the Goju. They really seem to be a good mix.


Mark

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#435409 - 08/04/12 03:13 AM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: iaibear]
Chris_Li Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 75
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Originally Posted By: iaibear
In aikido class today the subject came up that edge hand cuts are based on sword techniques.



In theory...yes, the mechanics are the same - but most Aikido folks really don't know much about sword.

Best,

Chris
_________________________
Chris Li
Aikido Sangenkai
Aikido Sangenkai Blog
Aikido Hawaii

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#435410 - 08/04/12 07:24 AM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: Chris_Li]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Maybe that's why it bothered me.

I have been practicing Iaido longer than Aikido. The idea that someone would come and grab my wrist from the front, while I am watching him with a blade in my hand, is not logical. That I would let him is even less so.

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#435415 - 08/07/12 09:47 AM Re: edge hand cuts [Re: iaibear]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: iaibear
Maybe that's why it bothered me.

I have been practicing Iaido longer than Aikido. The idea that someone would come and grab my wrist from the front, while I am watching him with a blade in my hand, is not logical. That I would let him is even less so.



I agree, totally. That doesn't mean that Aikido isn't relevent. I just think that it is a great addition to other arts. Example: Aikido blends well with Okinawan Goju Ryu.
As always the footwork is the key for me. Aikido's focus on "Ju" techniques is great for clumsy me.

Mark

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