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#434935 - 04/06/12 03:28 PM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Prizewriter]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
Hello and welcome.

As to your question, here are a few points to consider:

i) Any of the arts you mentioned can and have been used "self defense". Some people will try and convince you martial arts are papaer, rock, scissors. It's not always that simple. Style A doesn't always beat Style B. It's more to do with who can impose their strategy in a fight. A grappler will lose to a boxer if the grappler is tentative and doesn't close the distance and engage (see Roger Gracie vs Muhammed Lawal).

ii) Regardless of what your goal in martial arts is (be it to become better at fighting or get in shape), you will get the most benefit by training consistently. In order to train consistently, you have to ENJOY what you are doing. If you don't enjoy training sooner or later you're going to quit.

Finding something you enjoy is the most important thing to consider.

iii) The only way you will know if you enjoy a class is to try it. So the advice here would be to try all the classes and see what you enjoy the most.


Good luck!


Excellent advice.
You will get good at whatever you choose to do only if you enjoy doing it, and only you can answer that question for yourself.
Try everything. There's no rush, and the time invested will pay big dividends when you discover the style that you enjoy the most, as opposed to doing something that someone else thinks you should do, and having it become more of a chore.
Down the road, you may decide to switch to something else, and there's no shame in that either. You wouldn't be the first to do so.


Edited by choonbee (04/06/12 03:39 PM)
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#434936 - 04/06/12 11:28 PM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Ives]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: Ives
If someone wan't to learn for self defence, that person has to make sure that he/she recognises the limitations that comes with the chosen training format.

Training to function well within a rule bound competition format, which most likely will involve making use of those rules to get your opponent penaltied, is something different then training to do harm; so not hindered by rules.

Training without rules was never mentioned by me in my earlier posts.

So you could say awareness (+ avoidance, adaption, etc.) both in regards to training as well as in regards to your surroundings can aid in self-defence(-repetoir).


Do you mean adapting the rule set of training to be more conducive to real fighting such as not allowing guard pulling while sparring/rolling?
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#434956 - 04/09/12 09:00 PM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Stormdragon]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
It sounded like he said "Dont train for sport if you want to defend yourself effectively".
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#434969 - 04/10/12 05:56 AM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Stormdragon]
Ives Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon
Do you mean adapting the rule set of training to be more conducive to real fighting such as not allowing guard pulling while sparring/rolling?


Yeah it comes down to that more or less.

Here is an example of my training. I study bogu-karate, which has set rules for matches. The most prominent and also rather limiting is that contact may only be made on parts of the bogu (face-shield and chest protector).

But next to training for matches we also train for SD, but that doesn't involve those same rules. In an SD situation for instance I would probably kick my opponents ankle or knee; these aren't allowed in competition. Just like hitting the neck; could benefit me in SD, get's me disqualified in a match.

Kumite(sparring) and shiai(competition/match) are differnent in my opinion.
Some martial artist fail to train for both, some train for both as they train for the latter (which is too limited!), some train both individually best suited for their individual goals/purpose.

(This is the reason why I differentiate between partners (in sparring) and opponents (in competition and SD; the latter may be very obvious why).
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#434971 - 04/10/12 06:00 AM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Chen Zen]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
It sounded like he said "Dont train for sport if you want to defend yourself effectively".

Nope, not exactly... (close though)

More like this: If you want to defend yourself effectively train as safely as possible to defend yourself effectively.
Train for sport to win or to enjoy yourself.
Don't get those differnt goals mixed up.


Edited by Ives (04/10/12 06:01 AM)
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#435002 - 04/11/12 03:00 AM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Ives]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I think that there is some amount of cross-over. Without both sport and SD training, you're going to be missing something. I don't see why you can't have both as a goal.
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#435004 - 04/11/12 05:02 AM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
I think you are right, there is some amount of cross-over. Getting hit, is getting hit.
You can have both as a goal, that's up to every practisioner. But be aware that both are different goals that need a different approach in training, that's all I am saying.
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#435070 - 04/15/12 11:18 PM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Ives]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
It's absurd to think that training in a combat sport that involves all kinds of strikes, holds, takedowns/throws and such won't give someone some tools to effectively enable them to defend themselves in at least some real situations. Are there some kinds of situations that you can't address that way? Yes of course, especially in regards to tactics rather than specific techniques (for instance multiple attacker scenarios, weapon threats/attacks, surprise attacks, etc.) however those "sport" skills will still provide a wide range of tools that can help a lot and dealing in those other situations is more about tactics and awareness or mental training than "ok now groin strikes and eye gouging is involved."

What techniques you may deal with on the street as opposed to in the cage or ring is largely irrelevant. In mma you can throw front kicks to the upper thigh. If you can defend that effectively you can and most likely will stop a kick to the knee. If someone goes to full mount and tries to eye gouge you it's no different than defending a single hand choke, you buck hard which forces them to put their hands n the ground to keep from face planting, then arm trap and roll. There's only a few techniques that need to be addressed for self defense not contained in sport, and you can do that while still basing your program around sport. For example, stomps when they are standing and you are down (which used to be allowed in sport as well). But really, the main thing that is different is a tactical and psychological aspect. Combat sport training is different from physical self defense but not 100% different.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#435071 - 04/16/12 01:06 AM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: Stormdragon]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I agree for the most part, however there has been one very important question being overlooked, and that is "Which sport or art are we referring to?" Some are more suited to combat than others IMO, and unbiased evaluation should be observed whenever thinking of transfering techniques from one set of rules and ideas to another.
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"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#435073 - 04/16/12 10:47 AM Re: Which fighting style to train in? [Re: paul8]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Paul 8

Might be kinda of a non-issue at this point--but are the choices you have listed the one you have AVALIABLE or are they just the ones you WANT to look at?

The reason I ask is that the one "which provides the most real world self defense benefit" is generally the one you, yourself are best at.

Nor are all gyms/dojo/dojang/kwoons/etc. the same. MMA style training is good but not if the only gym in your location kinda sucks.

You should probably take into consideration that "other" factors are just as important as "style" when it comes to training. Stuff like:

-Is the teacher any good? They might be real tough people but can they TEACH what they know?

-Can you make the classes you want--some places have good training and teaching but not at the times you have avaliable.

-Can you afford the classes--hate to get all real-world in you, but these days costs--gas, class cost, opportunity cost etc. sometimes makes a real difference.

-What are your training buddies like? Most of what you list you kinda/often need a partner to work with. Are such people avalaible for you at the time you wish to train?

-What is the background of the people teaching---you are getting ready to join a "gym" that offers:

-K1
-Kickboxing
-Muay Thai
-Boxing
-Brazilian JJ
-MMA

A-Some gym smile

B-Is the same person teaching a couple of these or do they have 6 different teachers?

You probably have already thought about all these--just mentioning it.
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