FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 26 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SenseiGregT, sagat, JFawkes, pluckysaga39, sgtdemeo
22911 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
AndyLA 5
Dobbersky 5
Ed_Morris 4
ergees 3
futsaowingchun 3
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Recent Posts
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
08/29/14 10:50 PM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/28/14 02:39 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
08/16/14 04:59 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Forum Stats
22911 Members
36 Forums
35573 Topics
432484 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#434559 - 01/30/12 12:45 PM Re: The Guard [Re: Matakiant]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I prefer open or butterfly guard to maintain mobility. Usually, in terms of my groundfighting, I am seeking to stand up or at least sweep to gain top position. If I can get a sub, I will, depending on the situation.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#434560 - 01/30/12 02:43 PM Re: The Guard [Re: MattJ]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Originally Posted By: MattJ
I prefer open or butterfly guard to maintain mobility. Usually, in terms of my groundfighting, I am seeking to stand up or at least sweep to gain top position. If I can get a sub, I will, depending on the situation.


Ideally I'd like to escape too when punches are involved. I have at present limited sweeping options though (haven't trained them much!) and the only sub I can pull off as often as not is from the guard. I should mention we don't use gi's when we roll with punches. My life would be easier if we did ha ha!!

When strikes are involved it is way better (in my limited experience) to escape or get top position as soon as possible.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#434562 - 01/30/12 04:49 PM Re: The Guard [Re: Matakiant]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: Matakiant
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon
Youtube my friend, that is the answer. laugh A wide stance helps but it goes far beyond that for guys get real deep or go for single leg takedowns. Then again where you are you may not need to worry about that anyway.


My teacher had great BJJ experience but moving had put that on hold as well and we never got to much grappling.

As for ever needing to know or not that's kind of irrelevant the chances of being attacked by someone who is proficient in any kind of grappling anywhere in the world is pretty slim.. I just want to be a better martial artist and being able to grapple is a big big part of that I think the striking part I have down quite well and that's something I can maintain speed and power wise, even improve, on my own.



In my area there's actually a ton of wrestlers so having good ground skill is important.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#434563 - 01/30/12 05:04 PM Re: The Guard [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
I have limited BJJ experience. Done a few classes with Gracie Barra and a Carslon Gracie Jr affiliate, but most of my BJJ has been in a Gracie Garage. We roll quite a bit, and recently my sparring partner and garage owner (who studied MMA for 4 years) has started adding gentle punches in to our rolling. That definitely changed my perspective on grappling!!

I've only played Butterfly guard a little bit. Didn't like it, I was too easy to hit (my sweeps aren't great though).

Not too keen on rubber guard either. Seems ok in theory, but it does require quite a bit of flexiblity. Some people have a better range of motion than others (even if everyone is stretching). It's a guard that is too attribute-specific to be well used IMO.

Generally I stay in closed guard. If nothing else it stops me getting hit better than any other guard you mentioned. I'm not terribly experienced in BJJ/Sub Wrestling/MMA though.

If we were just doing BJJ, I'd maybe play about with different guards. If we are rolling w/ punches, closed guard. Thing is though that I should really keep it consistant. I am trying to have the same game whether we are rolling w/ punches or not. If I go in to what I call "Sports BJJ mode" I might start doing things that would get me a slap in the chops in MMA sparring! As with anything in MMA, I use the acronym KISS:

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid!!





Fantastic lineages to work under! As to getting hit in grappling, it tremendously changes things for sure. BJJ in mma is quite a bit different. Especially half guard. Closed guard is a good bet if you keep their posture broken, and honestly butterfly is great too, you just have to make sure you go for double underhooks or over under as soon as you can. I hear you on rubber guard, I really don't like it, some of our guys love it but they are also very lanky. It feels awkward for me, I only use it here and there to get the gogoplata which I rarely use. Open guard is really the best because it gives you the most offensive options, however it's also the easiest for someone to pass and hardest to defend strikes from as you pointed out so you really gotta have some skill already before working it for pure grappling let alone mma. I'm working open guard about as much as closed now but it's tricky. The key is to have a dynamic guard when open and keep changing the angles of your hips. Spider is another good one (ESPECIALLY with a gi on) that is particularly good against someone trying to hit you.

Whether you are dealing with strikes or not, some key points that make a huge difference would be not letting yourself be flattened out at any time, always angle your hips and keep your back rounded as much as possible. Also, establish control of their arms and head or hands and head whenever you can. And learn to see the guard as a place to attack from not just a place to survive.


Edited by Stormdragon (01/30/12 05:09 PM)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#434564 - 01/30/12 05:12 PM Re: The Guard [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
Originally Posted By: MattJ
I prefer open or butterfly guard to maintain mobility. Usually, in terms of my groundfighting, I am seeking to stand up or at least sweep to gain top position. If I can get a sub, I will, depending on the situation.


Ideally I'd like to escape too when punches are involved. I have at present limited sweeping options though (haven't trained them much!) and the only sub I can pull off as often as not is from the guard. I should mention we don't use gi's when we roll with punches. My life would be easier if we did ha ha!!

When strikes are involved it is way better (in my limited experience) to escape or get top position as soon as possible.




All you really need is the scissor sweep (with the knee kick follow up if they base out) and hip bump sweep. Get really, really good at those and you'll be fine in the majority of situations. Both of them won't allow you to be hit. The elevator can be nice to have as well but I personally don't use it much. I've used the swing sweep off of a failed armbar a few times but the hip bump and scissor sweep are money man.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#434565 - 01/30/12 05:24 PM Re: The Guard [Re: Dobbersky]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: Dobbersky
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon
Youtube my friend, that is the answer. laugh A wide stance helps but it goes far beyond that for guys get real deep or go for single leg takedowns. Then again where you are you may not need to worry about that anyway.


The 1 thing that gets me about youtube when you see BJJ challenges from other styles is that the Challenger looks like they're not even worthy of a Yellow belt let alone a Black Belt! The only time where I see some reality is on UFC

Then again, it depends on what rules they are "fighting to"!

The Guard needs to be natural, whatever one you take and it has to be adaptable against strikes from strikers and takedowns from grapplers.

If you've never done any grappling you will never know until it is too late how weak your guard is. the same for grapplers, they need to work on striking to know that they will have weak points in their guard that "authentic" strikers will find gaps in


Yeah but in a lot of the challenge matches the BJJ guy had sloppy, primitive takedowns so it kind of balances out. That last paragraph really hit it though.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#434567 - 01/30/12 05:54 PM Re: The Guard [Re: Stormdragon]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#434569 - 01/31/12 07:53 AM Re: The Guard [Re: Stormdragon]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon


Whether you are dealing with strikes or not, some key points that make a huge difference would be not letting yourself be flattened out at any time, always angle your hips and keep your back rounded as much as possible. Also, establish control of their arms and head or hands and head whenever you can. And learn to see the guard as a place to attack from not just a place to survive.


Thanks for the tips, Storm. I'm very much at the stage of surviving in bad positions. I do view the guard as something defensive though at the moment. Hoping to expand upon that in the future! Part of what we use the guard for in training is to tire the other person out.

An interesting thing about the Gracie Academy philosophy (Gracie Garage uses their material) is that they say the person who will win the fight isn't the person who attacks the most, it's the person who exhausts the least. I think this comes from an older generation of BJJ when there were much more generous time limits on matches (or no time limits at all). I don't know how well this would work in a modern BJJ tourney where a person has 5 or 6 minutes in a match. And despite the Gracie Academy's claim that they are teaching "self defence" BJJ, I don't how wise it is to always wait for someone to exhaust themselves in a grappling contest.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#434570 - 01/31/12 10:35 AM Re: The Guard [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon


Whether you are dealing with strikes or not, some key points that make a huge difference would be not letting yourself be flattened out at any time, always angle your hips and keep your back rounded as much as possible. Also, establish control of their arms and head or hands and head whenever you can. And learn to see the guard as a place to attack from not just a place to survive.


Thanks for the tips, Storm. I'm very much at the stage of surviving in bad positions. I do view the guard as something defensive though at the moment. Hoping to expand upon that in the future! Part of what we use the guard for in training is to tire the other person out.

An interesting thing about the Gracie Academy philosophy (Gracie Garage uses their material) is that they say the person who will win the fight isn't the person who attacks the most, it's the person who exhausts the least. I think this comes from an older generation of BJJ when there were much more generous time limits on matches (or no time limits at all). I don't know how well this would work in a modern BJJ tourney where a person has 5 or 6 minutes in a match. And despite the Gracie Academy's claim that they are teaching "self defence" BJJ, I don't how wise it is to always wait for someone to exhaust themselves in a grappling contest.



Until you've had a good year or year and a half it's best to focus maybe about 85% on survival and escape. That's the philosophy of Saulo and it makes a ton of sense. Early on I spent more training time rolling starting in bad positions just going for position and escape then rolling from a neutral position and attacking (though I train a lot and so I have always spend plenty of time on that too but I'm only now putting as much or more focus on attack and my top game).

Survival is kind of the main focus for a white belt, or should be anyway, passing and top control is what a blue belt should focus on, and purple and brown is supposed to be learning the multitude of attacks while black is just honing all of it and learning to teach. Now, of course at every level you learn attacks but the ratio of attack vs. defense changes. I don't follow this model perfectly but I've kind of been trained along those lines.

As for the wait them out and exhaust them thing, that's one school of thought, old school like you said. Very opportunistic, very BJJ as opposed to Sambo or submission wrestling. And to be honest you can actually somewhat do that in tournaments now. I use that approach quite a bit when I'm in side control (on bottom), and wait for them to get tired or just impatient and make a mistake and capitalize on it as opposed to constantly moving and really trying hard to fight out. Of course with 4-6 minute limits on time you have to use a toned down version of that tactic and be a little more active but you can still kind of do that. It's especially useful if the format doesn't use decisions on points and someone either wins by submission or it's a draw and you re-match. If it's pure BJJ I may even do that in mount (if I'm not doing GI-grappling) a bit. I used that approach a little in my last tournament which I took 1st in.

Now, from guard I'm very, very active looking for attacks and sweeps and eventually one will open up the other. I don't have the best technique or the fanciest, widest range of moves but I attack or go for sweeps relentlessly till I get something and eventually I usually do. Also, my top game is very active, I'm always chaining submissions and transitioning from one position to another. I'll get to side control and try to hit a few subs, then switch to knee on belly and work for something, or just make them uncomfortable then back to side control and into north south and so on. That works better for me than just solidifying position then pressuring and hanging out till they give me something as they try to escape.

With the guard, a lot of people think that they have a good guard if they can just lock it down and keep it for a really long time but against someone in decent shape with decent technique, you'll inevitably get your guard passed and then what good did it do for you? What's the point of the guard? You're in a position that gives you tons of options and you practically can't be attacked from, might as well use it. It's not like stalling out from a bad position where they can attack a lot of different ways which will give you openings to escape if you have a decent defense.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#434571 - 01/31/12 02:53 PM Re: The Guard [Re: Stormdragon]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
That make senses, you can't stay in the guard forever!!

Seeing as you mentioned youtube Storm, is there anyone out there you enjoy watching in terms of their guard work? I mean are there any BJJ players or grapplers you think have a good guard and watch regularly?
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  Cord, Fletch1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga