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#434511 - 01/24/12 10:02 AM side kick without pivoting
kibadachi1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 74
Loc: coble
went to different dojo and sensei said to do side kick without pivoting on the back foot. i found this really hard on the hips. i also been to lots of differnt clubs and was always told to pivot the back to open up the hips and get more power into it. if you look at any picture of bruce lee he has his supporting foot turned 180. i found a lot more people who do pivot and only one who don't. what are your thoughts on this?

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#434513 - 01/24/12 01:44 PM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: kibadachi1]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Missouri
I came up and learned the side kick with a pivot.You are correct in there is more power and hip drive this way.That being said I still pivot some when doing this kick, but not 180 like my TKD days.I've found that "shooting out your heel" to the target (off the lead leg) doesn't require a full 180 pivot. Over pivoting is dangerous in a street confrontation. If your kick in jammed or your opponent slides down your outside/back, you are vulnerable.Also I would never throw a side kick from the back leg.That's just me. I have long legs and the time to uncoil them from the rear leg is too long for me.
I guess I would say, in tournement the 180 pivot is fine, but for SD application I would cut about 1/2 of those degrees out of the pivot.

Mark

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#434518 - 01/24/12 06:53 PM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: gojuman59]
MattJ Online   happy
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I always pivot the back foot for maximum hip engagement. Same thing with Roundhouse kicks, it allows for more power and mobilty. Why does your sensei suggest not rotating the back foot? I'm curious.
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#434521 - 01/25/12 03:25 AM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: MattJ]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
I wondered the same thing; what's this instructors reason to not pivot.
I prefer using the rear-foot, even for SD-ish application (gedan sokuto geri to the knee/inner thigh/ankle).

(@ Gojuman59, with long legs it comes down to warp-speed, I'm 6'1"/186cm so have quite long legs myself.)
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#434522 - 01/25/12 09:39 AM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: Ives]
kibadachi1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 74
Loc: coble
the reason given not to pivot is
1. it gives more power
2. your not close enough to kick so your trying to make up for distance. so your compisating and when your trying to make up for something your losing out on something else
3. your foot turned backwards will leave you in bad position for follow up.
4 pivoting is good for fancy high kicking and only good for sport or point sparring but no good for the street.

1. I find it is actually less powerful because it is like punching with just arm strength no your not generating the power from the hips.

2. It does give you more inches to your kick which i think is a good thing . just like a fighters reach is an advantage

3. your foot doesn't stay in the position as soon as you kick it comes back with your rechamber . if your kick gets jammed or something and your supporting leg is still pointing back wards it would be in postion to do spin back kick or spin hand techniques or something else

4. look at bruce lees side kick he has his supporting leg foot turned back and he would be good on the street i think


Edited by kibadachi1 (01/25/12 09:41 AM)

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#434525 - 01/25/12 02:01 PM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: kibadachi1]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
I would agree with point 3 (bad position for follow up), but dispute the others.

I can kick with or without pivoting. In fact, the standard Isshinryu yoko-geri is done without the pivot. I'd say its effectiveness is only good knee-high or lower. For real power - especially above the waist - you need to open the hips like Matt said.
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#434527 - 01/25/12 05:58 PM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: Ironfoot]
Jeff_G Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 222
Loc: Midwest
I call the method of not turning the hip into the kick "the flippy dippy side kick." I've seen people walk right through that one as it has little stopping power.

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#434529 - 01/25/12 07:22 PM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: Jeff_G]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: Jeff_G
I call the method of not turning the hip into the kick "the flippy dippy side kick." I've seen people walk right through that one as it has little stopping power.

I agree. There should be some turn or the power of the kick won't slow the attack. I also like to hit with the outside/top of the heel. I think it gives better penetration than the footsword. I just think that there has to be some turning of the pivot foot or one is wasting the power of your core muscles and the glutes.

Mark

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#434532 - 01/26/12 11:49 AM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: gojuman59]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 892
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
I've been doing some Box/Kick Fit (TaeBo) classes at the local Gym to add to my weekly workout regime. And you can tell the trainer has never done any martial arts etc. Here you are asked to do many techniques which are completely wrong in execution!

I always correct the technques and it is for fun and its not my class so I don't interupt, well I didn't until the knee strike to pads. I asked her to support the hands by placing 1 over the other and asked if she could tell the class to point their toes down as due to the "location" of the pads there were some "near misses" to certain areas and i know this is as painful to the females as it is to the males if one gets "caught" there!!!
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A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#434536 - 01/27/12 12:31 AM Re: side kick without pivoting [Re: Dobbersky]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 114
I think that is quite silly unless he meant you should rather ''step into'' the kick.

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