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#434505 - 01/24/12 02:58 AM Leo's Judo Journal
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Thought I'd share my experiences training Judo with anyone who might be interested. Today I started training, got my white belt and Judo gi.

We started with the usual stretches and then went on to break falls and rolls. I was surprised by how dizzy I got after the rolls but it cleared up after a while.

We then went on to cover a few pins in order:
Kesa Gatame
Kuzure Kesa Gatame
Mune Gatame
Kuzure Kami Shio Gatame
Ushiro Kesa Gatame
Tate Shiho Gatame
(Found the names on judoinfo.com because I forgot them from class)

We then learned Osoto Gari.

The beginner class I joined is small (6 people) and all white belts. I think I'm the youngest person in the class too. The class was pretty laid back because most of the students have to go to work the next day.

Altogether a good first lesson! smile
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#434507 - 01/24/12 05:31 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Awesome stuff dude! Sounds like a good class. Starting from the bottom up is the best way to start in Judo.

Keep the journal going as long as you can, look forward to reading it.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434509 - 01/24/12 08:29 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Dobbersky Offline
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Excellent, I start my Judo Class in 3 weeks, already got my Gi and looking forward to learning how to backward roll correctly and safely, My Goal with Judo is to learn the Kodakan Goshin Jutsu Kata
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#434512 - 01/24/12 12:55 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Er good luck! Goshin Jutsu Kata is rarely taught in most Judo schools. I've seen it done at a seminar once, but that was by request. Honestly, a lot of modern Judoka see Kata as not much more than something that has to be done for a grading/promotion. They learn as much as they need to to get their next belt, then forget about it. Most of the time in Judo class is spent drilling technique and sparring.

To be honest, I've never been blown away by Goshin Jutsu. Highly unrealistic attacks and responses. IMO there are much better systems available to learn how to use grappling in terms of "Self-Defence" than said Kata. If you want to learn the Kata for the sake of learning it or out of interest, you should. You might find it hard to get someone who has the knowledge and desire to teach you though.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434519 - 01/24/12 06:54 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Very cool, Leo. Thanks for sharing. It's always interesting reading someone's elses journey through the arts.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#434568 - 01/31/12 12:57 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: MattJ]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today was similar to last Monday, we drilled lots of newaza and then focused on Osoto Gari. I'm focusing on using good form in my Kuzushi to start with. My instructor says that it's ok if I try the first part of the throw twice so that I get more practice with breaking balance.

We're apparently being taught in the traditional way (like in kata) because in the adult's beginner's class it's unlikely that we'll be in competition so we get to focus on correct form. smile

I'm still having trouble letting go of my right hand when doing Osoto Gari but I expect that when I get used to the throw I'll probably fix that problem.

So far, my impression is that Judo is a very technical art in both throws and groundwork but still involves a lot of explosive power especially when throwing.
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#434586 - 02/02/12 01:26 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today we started with break falls as usual and then we moved on to throws directly. We were taught by two of the school's black belts (our regular instructor is a brown belt). We reviewed Osoto Gari and Ogoshi went over the basics of Ippon Seoinage which I found quite complex but not as tricky as Ogoshi.

I had a bit of trouble with getting too close to my training partner when doing kuzushi so I spent most of the lesson just drilling footwork and the lead into the throw. In the end I managed to do some ok throws.
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#434587 - 02/02/12 04:20 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Good Man Leo, keep at it! If you can get the entry to Seoinage down you'll find it much easier to do most other Judo throws. They use the same entry method and use the same Kuzushi and (mostly) simlar Tsukri methods. My old Judo coach use to say if you can do Ippon Seoi Nage, you can do 80% of the throws in Judo.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434598 - 02/08/12 04:42 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
On Monday, we covered all of our previous throws and added Tai-Otoshi. We had a session where we were told to do as many Osoto Gari throws as possible in a few minutes on multiple ukes one after another. The idea was to stop us from taking the throw step by step and get it to work as a single motion.

Although I definitely need more practice to get comfortable with Osoto Gari, I think I managed a couple of good ones without pausing during the throw. smile
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#434616 - 02/12/12 06:43 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I attended my Dojo's Jujutsu class today to see what it's like. It was a great workout, much better than the beginners class and I was already tired after the warm-up.

We reviewed hip throws followed by a counter to hip throw using Osoto Gari. I did some live throws with a brown belt (kind of like randori but one partner is assigned to do the throwing beforehand) and I noticed that they throw differently from the way we do. Their kuzushi is not as effective as what we were taught in Judo class and my partner had a hard time throwing me. At one point he failed to do a dropping Ippon Seoinage and I ended up getting him in a back mount. He did manage to do a couple of sweeping throws but they felt a little less powerful than in the Judo class. His groundwork was excellent though and he's really fit.

I think my instructor wants me to join the Jujutsu class after I leave the beginner class but I'm more confident now that I made the right decision in choosing Judo. I really appreciate the focus on kuzushi and throws in my Judo class and the reason I wanted to do Judo in the first place was to learn how to stay on my feet instead of getting taken down. smile
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#434617 - 02/12/12 04:17 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Excellent Leo! With the exception of Olympic Wrestling, you won't find a better take down art than Judo. Judo throws and their setups are head and shoulders above any other sort of throwing I've encountered in martial arts (even Aikido of JuJutsu).

Sounds like you made the right choice with Judo. Keep it up.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434618 - 02/13/12 05:54 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Dobbersky]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
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Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 892
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Dobbersky
Excellent, I start my Judo Class in 3 weeks, already got my Gi and looking forward to learning how to backward roll correctly and safely, My Goal with Judo is to learn the Kodakan Goshin Jutsu Kata


WELL, I had my first Judo Class, amazingly I felt ok with it, can't wait till the next one, my body aches from breakfalling though lol
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#434623 - 02/14/12 05:49 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Dobbersky]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Glad you are enjoying Judo Dobbersky! smile The break falls will get easier with practice.

Today we did a review of O Goshi and Osoto Gari. My instructor said that my O Goshi has improved quickly (probably due to my Jujutsu training a few years ago) and he remarked that it seems like my technique is very good for Osoto Gari. It's definitely my favourite throw so far. smile

I also did my first correct Tai Otoshi but I'm finding it difficult to get my leg out quickly enough. I guess that will improve with practice.

We also covered the pins again and my instructor had no comment about them so I guess I did them correctly.

He suggested that I start practicing the movements of the throws at home (kind of like shadow boxing) so I'll be doing 20 of each throw every day.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434624 - 02/14/12 07:53 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Good work Leo and Ken!

Leo, get some resistance bands for home training. They are great for practicing Uchi Komi and working up a sweat. Below are some examples of drills you can do:



_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434625 - 02/14/12 10:29 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 892
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
i found this to be an excellent Website

http://www.judoinfo.com/ukemi.htm

and this page

http://judoinfo.com/new/

_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#434627 - 02/15/12 03:35 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Yep Judoinfo is great. There's a good reason it's the first sticky on the FA Judo/Ju Jutsu forum!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434653 - 02/23/12 02:14 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today was just review and back to the basics with Osoto-Gari technique. I need to ensure that my foot touches the ground when I do the sweep and that I follow through.

I did my first left handed Osoto-Gari today and that was a bit strange at first. I've definitely got a lot of work to get it right on my left side.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434671 - 02/24/12 06:19 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 892
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
My 2nd lesson tonight yeah!!!

Been reading "Teach Yourself Judo" Too.

I also got "Bruce Tegner's Complete book of Judo" amongst a few other Judo Books from Amazon, I also got a BJJ book which is similar to a BJJ Syllabus book by 1 of the Gracie family.

I also have "Judo for MMA" by some UFC fighter (can't remember his name right now)

OSU
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#434672 - 02/24/12 07:12 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
If you guys want to use resistance bands at home to work on your Uchi Komi and help your mat fitness, check out a book called "Championship Judo" by Mike Swain. He has a whole photographed section on resistance band excercises for Judo. Mr Swain was a former world Judo Champion too, there is a lot of good information in the book besides the resistance band stuff.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434679 - 02/25/12 08:27 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I've been reading Best Judo. It really helps with getting the technique right and the tips in the book are useful, especially for kuzushi. I totally recommend it for beginners.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434690 - 02/28/12 03:26 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today we reviewed the 6 pins we've been covering and did a lot of Ogoshi practice. I think I'm beginning to understand the kuzushi for this one now and I'm able to do a throw in one continuous motion now instead of stopping halfway through.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434737 - 03/06/12 02:08 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today was a particularly fun lesson. We started with Tai Otoshi and followed up with our six pins. Then we covered chokes (Okuri Eri Jime and Hadaka Jime) from a kneeling position, which left my throat sore.

Finally in preparation for randori, we did a kind of sparring where the goal is to just grab the opponent's gi and unbalance them without throwing them. I wasn't very good at it but it was a lot of fun to do. smile Hopefully I get better with practice and get less predictable.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434740 - 03/06/12 04:23 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Good stuff Leo! Check out Grip Like a world Champion by Jimmy Pedro. Gripping is really overlooked in gi grappling, but it is one of the most crucial aspects. In Jufo the person who gets the grip they want first usually throws their opponent.

Learn to switch grips quickly and really work for the grip you want. Watch gripping videos by Jimmy Pedro and Rhadi Ferguson on youtube.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434745 - 03/06/12 11:37 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Will do Prizewriter. Thanks!
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434756 - 03/08/12 01:41 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
We did Tai Otoshi again today, only this time we did it while walking instead of from standing still. I found this very difficult and felt quite clumsy and lacking control when I did it. smirk

Today was pretty focussed on trying to move about while maintaining balance and still doing the correct kuzushi.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434767 - 03/08/12 01:50 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Tai Otoshi is an awkward throw for a lot of people Leo. I find Seoi Otoshi a lot easier.

Really good tutorial by world champ Neil Adams on Tai Otoshi (which is his favourite throw):

_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434769 - 03/09/12 02:06 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Good video. He does it a lot different from how I was taught. We actually bend our knee and use the ball of the foot on the leg the uke trips over. I like his kuzushi especially.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434793 - 03/15/12 01:54 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today we did a quick review of Osoto-Gari and Tai-Otoshi. Also, I found out that I'm falling incorrectly. I angle myself to the side, making it hard for someone to throw me during practice, it made the falls more painful too.

I finally understand what the hand movement is supposed to be for Tai-Otoshi, it was awkward to push out away from my body at first before pulling down but after a few attempts I managed to to one good throw. It felt really light and easy when I did the arm movement correctly, it was quite a different sensation from before.

Also, I've noticed that Osoto-Gari is much more comfortable now. I feel much more stable when doing it than when I first started, so much so that it surprised me how stable I felt doing the throw.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434857 - 03/27/12 03:03 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Had my first grading today. It involved helping out with teaching the childrens' class by doing demos and explaining techniques.

Later I learned Kosoto Gari briefly before my "formal" exam in front of one of the school's black belts. We were asked to demonstrate all of the throws we've learned as well as every pin we know. I did well on almost all of the throws except Tai Otoshi, which I had to redo twice.

In the end I passed so I'll be receiving my green belt on Wednesday. smile
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434858 - 03/27/12 09:20 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
iaibear Offline
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Way to go!

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#434865 - 03/28/12 12:31 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: iaibear]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Good going Leo!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434871 - 03/29/12 03:25 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Thanks iaibear and Prizewriter. I'm looking forward to learning some new techniques now.

The belt promotion will actually be on Monday next week when there are more people in the class (usually most people come in on Monday and skip Wednesday).

Today we reviewed Tai-Otoshi, Osoto Gari and Ippon Seoinage, with a focus on getting the position of our hands correct in the Kuzushi. I also got better acquainted with Kosoto Gari, which I think will be very useful in future.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434884 - 04/01/12 02:22 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today in class we covered movement (Tai Sabaki) which is much trickier than I'd imagined it would be. It's pretty hard to move without exposing yourself to Kuzushi. I learned to walk while pulling my opponent off balance and trying to position their feet in order to throw them.

I also had my first Randori which was a lot of fun. smile I managed to get in an Osoto Gari after pulling my opponent towards me so that my left foot was in line with his right foot and then reversing the motion quickly into the Tsukuri.

In a later round, he tried for an Uchi Mata but I stopped him by pushing against his hip with my hand and then I countered with a Kosoto Gari.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434885 - 04/01/12 06:14 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Good work Leo! Sounds like you're progressing well. Randori can be lots of fun and there are few sweeter feelings than catching someone with a throw in randori!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#434893 - 04/03/12 03:25 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today we reviewed the white belt throws and learned a few escapes from Kesa Gatame. I also had a few grappling rounds where I had to escape from a pin in 30 seconds. It's surprisingly difficult, much more difficult than I expected. I pretty much exhausted myself without achieving anything in the 30 seconds.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434905 - 04/05/12 01:27 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today we did a quick review of Tai Otoshi before starting on Randori. I managed to get a Tai Otoshi to work on one of my training partners but pretty much every other round I was thrown (mostly counter thrown). I think my weakness is in my Kuzushi which I wasn't really using well.

One problem I noticed is that when my opponent stiffens up his arms and sprawls his legs back, I don't really know what to do. I try pulling him down or to the side in an attempt to get an opening for a sweep or Seoinage but it doesn't really do much. Also, I know how to get my opponent to cross his legs when circling but because they're bent over towards me, I can't reach for a sweep.

My instructor says that having a rigid upper body and leaning forwards is bad form and will get you thrown, but so far it seems that the people who do this have the advantage. Any suggestions on how I can take advantage of their rigid upper body and their leaning forwards?
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Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#434962 - 04/10/12 01:18 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today I taught the kids class doing demos of Osoto Gari and Tai Otoshi. I also helped with the kids during training to make sure their technique was good.

It's a lot harder to teach Judo than it looks. You can't have all the kids throwing at the same time like in TKD because they have to take turns on the crash mat. It reminded me of my black belt days teaching in TKD.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#435034 - 04/12/12 01:33 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Today we learned some BJJ from a purple belt who's cross training in our Judo class. We covered the scissor sweep, cross choke and a couple of techniques for passing guard. It was a lot of fun, although I felt pretty awkward and out of my element doing it.

I later rolled with one of the Judo brown belts and got choked, pinned, etc. I really have no idea what I'm doing when I'm on the ground.
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Self Defense
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#435079 - 04/16/12 02:31 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Really messes you up going on the ground for the first time, doesn't it? It does get easier. First few times I rolled on the ground I was reminded of a quote by Rigan Machado

When we go to the ground, you are in my world. The ground is the ocean, I am the shark, and most people don't even know how to swim

Funny and true at the same time.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#435085 - 04/17/12 01:37 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
So true. I've also noticed that there is a difference between how Judo people approach grappling on the ground vs how BJJ people do it. Judo people seem to be in much more of a hurry and use more muscle and seem to be less concerned about technique on the ground. The goal seems to be the same, to get a dominant position but there's a real race to get there. Also, being in the guard in Judo is apparently not a good place to be.

Anyway, today I spent some time teaching the kids again, training break-falls and pins. It's tough to get them to pay attention but they seemed to be interested in the tips I gave them to make it easier to do the technique correctly. (For instance, in Kesa Gatame to Kuzure Kesa Gatame, making sure you keep your head down while moving your arm)

After teaching the kids, in the adults class, we covered some feints that we can try doing before some of the throws that we know to make our throws less predictable. This consisted mostly of pretending to go for another throw or pulling in the opposite direction before going for Kuzushi. I definitely found it easier to get the right Kuzushi when my training partner didn't expect it.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (04/17/12 01:40 AM)
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#435088 - 04/17/12 01:17 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Dave Camarillio (a high level Judo Black belt and BJJ black belt under Ralph Gracie) said moving from Judo to BJJ is much easier than moving from BJJ to Judo, as Judo is much more dynamic and faster paced. You don't get a lot of time on the ground in Judo as you know Leo, so Judoka tend to scramble or stall as fast as they can. In BJJ you can, more or less, take as much time as you want on the ground. This generally leads to a more smooth, relaxed ground game.
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#435099 - 04/20/12 01:39 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
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Yesterday, we did a review of Tai Otoshi and Ogoshi. I think I finally understand the mechanics behind Tai Otoshi and it's pretty comfortable to do the throw now, although I tend to turn my torso further than most people in my class when I do it.

I also learned an advanced variant on Ogoshi where instead of pivoting and then squatting, you squat first when you apply the kuzushi and corkscrew your bottom around 180 degrees. This has the effect of accelerating the throw dramatically, resulting in a much more explosive technique. I love this variant and it's much easier for me to perform than the standard pivot and squat method. smile
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#435112 - 04/24/12 02:05 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Today we practiced Osoto Gari and Ippon Seoinage. I also learned Morote Seoinage, which just seems like a more convenient version of Ippon Seoinage.

I also figured out that for me, it helps to wait for my hips to touch my partner before my shoulder does. This ensures that I get down low enough when squatting to prevent blocking myself from completing the throw.
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#435142 - 05/03/12 01:01 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Today was mostly review of Osoto Gari and Tai Otoshi. I think I've got the basics of these throws now, and I'm able to do them fluently from a stationary position. We'll be doing Tai Sabaki next week, which I'm looking forward to learning.

I also did a review of Ippon Seoinage, particularly what to do once you're in the Kake phase. I learned that by twisting your torso as you throw increases the power of the throw. I'm glad that the class has gone on to adding power to the throws now.
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#435168 - 05/08/12 03:12 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Today we covered a variant of Ogoshi which is easier to use on taller people, where you grab their upper back instead of around their waist. I didn't really see the difference since I'm a little taller than average for my class but other people found it helpful.
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#435171 - 05/08/12 09:07 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Leo, Tai Sabaki, I though Kuzushi was more inline with Judo whereas Tai Sabaki was more inline with Aikido?

I've moved Kwai's and found that I learn more in the one lesson than I did in all the lessons I attended in the other Kwai
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#435291 - 06/12/12 02:03 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Dobbersky]
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I'm back at Judo after a while being away. Today we covered two new throws, Harai Goshi and Morote Seoinage. I found Harai Goshi a little unusual but I like Morote Seoinage even better than Ippon Seoinage. My Sensei said that it's a good technique to use against people who instinctively try to stand up/pull back against you when you attempt a forward throw.

We also practiced Tai Otoshi and Ippon Seoinage to improve some of the details of the throws. I'm pretty confident with the first 6-7 throws I've learned now, but I think that I'd like to practice them a few hundred more times before going onto more randori. The throws aren't automatic yet.

I've also been helping to teach white belts who are going to be doing their green belt test soon.
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#435297 - 06/14/12 05:44 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Yesterday we trained Ouchi Gari, which is pretty tricky. It feels like you're moving in one direction and sweeping in the opposite direction.

We did a bit more randori, which I'm not very good at. I did manage to do the correct kuzushi for Tai-Otoshi but I didn't manage to complete the throw. It's totally different doing a throw against a resisting opponent than during kata. It's much harder to get the opportunity to apply the correct kuzushi and speed is much more important. I'm trying to apply the throws I've learned in class but the other green belts are just concerned with muscling me down to the ground. I hope that focussing on technique is the right way to go about this, it feels better to do a clean throw with correct kuzushi instead of dragging my opponent down to the floor.

Unfortunately, I landed on my elbow and injured my shoulder. It's not dislocated because I can still move it but it hurts a lot to move. I've iced it, etc and I'm staying in bed today...
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#435305 - 06/16/12 04:37 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Originally Posted By: Leo_E_49

Unfortunately, I landed on my elbow and injured my shoulder. It's not dislocated because I can still move it but it hurts a lot to move. I've iced it, etc and I'm staying in bed today...



A quote of mine from your "Judo or BJJ" thread Leo:

Originally Posted By: prizewriter

Both myself and others on here have had to miss Judo for months at a time due to injury caused by Judo. In my experience anyone who has done Judo for any serious length of time (i.e. more than a year) usually has gotten at least one moderate to serious injury.Worse injuries I've witness are broken bones and serious concussion (loss of consciousness).


Now people will tell you the reason you get injured in Judo is because you can't breakfall properly bla bla.... It's a pile of nonsense. Judo is a dynamic, explosive art. Everyone, I mean everyone, lands badly. 2 years ago a 4th dan from Ireland, competiting at the world masters, landed badly and broke some of his ribs. The guy is a professional judo coach and has been involved with Judo for 30 years. Telling people they get injured in Judo because they can't fall properly is like telling people in boxing they get punched because they have no good defense. Even Floyd Mayweather Jr and Pernell Whitaker got punched!

In Judo, sometimes you are going to land badly because you can't react in the split second it takes for your opponent to slam you in to the ground.

One thing it sounds like though is that in your randori, your opponents are working against you rather than with you. as in they are going all out for the win. A Judo coach once told me that you have to go no more than 70% intensity when training Judo. 100% effort is reserved for tournaments!

I know you don't like guys muscling in and not using technique Leo, but welcome to the wonderful world of Judo in the 21st century. Here is a 2008 Olympic match between Naidangiin Tuvshinbayar of Mongolia and Keiji Suzuki of Japan (the 2004 Olympic Champion). What won the day here was brute force and ignorance!! Whether you use great technique or muscle in on someone to get the throw, you get an ippon either way. Technique is better because it requires less effot, but takes longer to acquire IMO.









Edited by Prizewriter (06/16/12 04:39 AM)
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#435306 - 06/17/12 01:40 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
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I figure I'm pretty lucky, I'll probably be out of class for a week or two.

Our sensei asked us to do some light randori, but I think we don't know how light "light" is supposed to be. Every time we've done randori at least one person has been hurt. I think that there's something wrong with this approach...

As to muscling a throw, it makes sense in competition but I can't see it being worthwhile during regular training, especially for lower belt levels who aren't competing yet. I hope it gets better during training.

I'm not really interested in muscling a throw during randori because I don't really learn anything new that way. I'd rather be able to make the throws work than just go with instinct. I may as well not do randori at all if I'm not going to do Judo during it.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/17/12 01:43 AM)
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#435307 - 06/17/12 07:32 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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I think that is a problem with most Judo classes Leo, the lines between light Randori and full on randori get blurred very easily.

Regarding someone in your Judo class getting busted up every week, welcome to Judo!!! That is a pretty common occurence in every class I've been to.

Along with boxing, no martial art (and I include MMA in this) takes more out of a person than Judo IMO (although Wrestling looks nearly as bad, I haven't wrestled).

The way I see it, you have some options:

i) Look for people who go light in Randori, and only ever spar with them.

ii) Do limited randori. Maybe only do one or two sessions, then sit the rest out.

iii) I know you might not want to hop out of Judo so soon, but consider BJJ. As I said before, BJJ is about 10 times safer than Judo. A guy on sherdog said he met a Brazilian BJJ instructor who also did a bit of Judo. The guy from Sherdog also did a bit of Judo. The Brazilian coach explained BJJ thusly "BJJ is like Judo except you don't get injured all the time!" If you want to keep doing Judo, maybe cut down to one class a week, and do BJJ instead of your other Judo classes. Or just drop Judo altogether.

I realise I may get a certain amount of flak for suggesting opting out of Judo so soon, but you have to take care of your health first and foremost Leo. If you aren't trying to get to the Olympics or don't have a burning desire to do Judo and the randori situation doesn't improve, it may be better to try BJJ for a while.
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#435309 - 06/17/12 09:47 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
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I'm certainly considering it now, although I want to continue with Judo for a while longer. I'll try out your first two suggestions first.

By the way, the guy who took me down onto my elbow was a former wrestler.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/17/12 09:48 AM)
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#435332 - 06/25/12 12:06 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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My doctor says it might be a small tear in my rotator cuff. I've got an X-ray to go to on Wednesday and I've been told not to do any Judo for at least two weeks.
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#435334 - 06/26/12 09:18 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Nice, I got a Sprained Wrist from Press-ups, thought it might have been a Schyphoid Fracture.

Lol, Injuries, its only the "Die Hards" that manage to carry on training after their injuries have healed, Damn even some of use train through the injuries but that's Ole Skool

Leo, something to keep you going until you can rejoin the mat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46veLgINF...RlWjHXpE9uPl7nQ

OSU
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#435341 - 06/27/12 04:01 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Dobbersky]
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Exactly Dobbersky. Only people who persisted with Judo are usually people who are passionate about it or people who want to compete at the highest level. I heard of a guy from Edinburgh (originally from NI) who fought at a high level in tournaments for a long time. He sustanined a lot of joint damaged which directly lead to an arthritic condition. He had arthritis from the age of 38 and was forced to quit Judo.

Martial arts should enhance persons life IMO, not take away from it. It gets to a point where you have to face the reality of training.

Hope you get well soon Leo, and as before, consider BJJ when you are well if you still want to grapple but reduce injury risk.
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#435359 - 07/08/12 04:44 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
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My doctor says it's ok for me to return to Judo class now. Apparently I have a bone spur in my shoulder which aggravated the injury. That's something to be mindful of in future I guess.
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#435360 - 07/09/12 08:15 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Goodness Leo, take it easy with that. If you are going back to Judo I would defintely talk to your coach and take a more selective approach to randori. As I said before, do somewhere between little to no randori depending on how you feel. And make sure where possible you avoid any knuckle heads in class.

Or ask your coach if you can do ground randori only for a while. Just work on sparring on the ground. The less chance you have of getting thrown, the less chance you have of getting injured IMO. Most injuries in Judo I've seen occur by a)someone getting thrown b) someone trying to throw their opponent.

Good luck whatever you decide to do Leo! Keep us updated.
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#435361 - 07/09/12 12:34 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
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I'm probably going to opt out of randori most of the time now. It's a shame because I would like to be able to practice against a resisting opponent but it's just a bit too risky. I think I'll move to the intermediate Danzan Ryu Jujitsu class where they don't do randori and maybe I'll transition to BJJ when I've had enough of learning throws.

P.S. Apparently the spur has been there for years, it's not a result of my Judo training but it didn't help the injury. I must have developed it during my TKD years.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (07/09/12 12:41 PM)
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#435362 - 07/10/12 04:04 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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I'm telling you something you already know Leo, but learning throws against non-resistant opponents will only be of limited benefit to you in the long run. And a lot of Judo throws (regardless of where you learn them) still might work your shoulder pretty hard, which could make life difficult for you because of the spur.

Give it a go though. I should also say that if you do want to continue with throws, a good BJJ school will teach you throws and other takedowns too, but you have options of NOT having to throw someone in BJJ sparring. In modern Judo, you are more or less expected to throw someone (or get thrown). You have far more options in BJJ. You can simply pull guard on someone in BJJ sparring from standing, and you both go down in pretty safe and pain free manner.
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#435366 - 07/10/12 11:58 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Prizewriter]
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I'm definitely going to look for a good BJJ class sometime in future but I really enjoy doing throws, so I'll probably at least continue to practice them if I can. I know that it's not as good to train against a non-resisting opponent but in this case I may not have a choice. We'll see what happens, but I'm not going to risk major shoulder injury. If there's pain during static throws, I may have to stop altogether.
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#435369 - 07/11/12 01:30 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Originally Posted By: Leo_E_49
I'm definitely going to look for a good BJJ class sometime in future but I really enjoy doing throws, so I'll probably at least continue to practice them if I can. I know that it's not as good to train against a non-resisting opponent but in this case I may not have a choice. We'll see what happens, but I'm not going to risk major shoulder injury. If there's pain during static throws, I may have to stop altogether.


Geez, is your Judo class just super full-on or what? is it not possible to find like minded folks to just do light uchi komi and randori with?

One thing, doing constant practice of static throws can be injurious too, especially if your ukemi isn't good, or the person throwing you "WWE" pile drives you every time. ONe thing that I like alot (some don't) is crash mats...

I'm doing DZR right now LEO, I like it alot, I wish it was more progressive and freer in terms of playing with the material and freeplay stuff, but I have to admit the technical level of the throws is fantastic.

If it's any consolation to you, my friend who i'm learning DZR from also did Judo with me for a bit, and his skill in throws DID play a huge role the times I did randori with him, his years of static throwing translated fairly well (in ways that can be expected of course) to the uchi komi and randori practice. Albeit there were some huge limitations - the biggest being lack of combo throws.

Anyone who thinks that having good throws won't effect resistant training is dead wrong IMO. Not saying by any means that yous shouldn't do the randori, nor that the throws wouldn't be better with the randori (undeniably they would)...just that knowing how to throw in a way that can't be felt is actually a big deal, and there is way more to learning that than Randori.

I'd try out the DZR and see if you like it, I do miss the dynamic stuff for sure, especially the combo throws and setups.

I know some DZR classes roll as well and do occasional randori, the guys I know do.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (07/11/12 01:45 AM)

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#435370 - 07/11/12 12:32 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Zach_Zinn]
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It's not so much that people are aggressive in randori but that we're not very experienced so we make mistakes. This injury was caused when my opponent tripped up and fell on top of me. This is always a risk but more so with beginners.
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#435371 - 07/11/12 01:46 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Ah ok, I get it. I was lucky enough to get people who were way better than me, shodans and above I think, so they kept me relatively safe, as well as letting me get away with stalling and stuff heh. I remember having one guy do a osoto gari, sasae ashi combo throw so gently that I felt like a feather getting tossed around, was pretty impressed he managed to do something like that with very little impact for me.

I do know the one time I did standing randori with someone my own level my shins were literally black the next day from failed deashi barai attempts heh. Didn't even notice them in class but did after.

Did you have someone watching you? It seems like alot of the time the Judo guys I trained with had a senior supervising.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (07/11/12 01:48 PM)

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#435433 - 08/30/12 01:15 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Zach_Zinn]
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It's been a while but this week I'm easing back into Judo training. We focussed on practicing breakfalls, Tai-Otoshi and O-Goshi with several grip variants on Monday and today we covered more breakfalls and Tai Sabaki. Today was the first lesson ever where no one did a single throw but I feel like I learned more this lesson than in any other so far. I'm finally beginning to understand how to move with an un-cooperative opponent, something I was never able to do before in Jujitsu. The key for me appears to be to relax and to think of movement in circles and straight lines. Use circular movements to counter straight line attacks and straight line movement to counter circular attacks. This seemed to create a lot of potential openings for Kuzushi. I feel a lot more confident with my positioning now even though I'm still just beginning to move correctly.

Zach, I know this is a bit late but we had a black belt watching the Randori the whole time, accidents happen though especially since we're still relative beginners.

It's good to be back in Judo again, I really missed training. smile

I'm loving this MA right now, I'm glad I chose Judo over Jujitsu. I like groundwork a lot but throws are exhilarating, I really like catching someone off balance and seeing the opportunity for Kuzushi.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (08/30/12 01:19 AM)
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#435474 - 09/23/12 08:24 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Last week I learned Harai Goshi which I like a lot. It's very dynamic and I learned how to lead into it with Ouchi Gari, which will be useful in randori.
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#435484 - 09/27/12 11:48 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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This week we did a lot of ground fighting. I learned how to do an arm bar and a figure four arm lock from the mount and side mount. We also did a lot of uchikomi with the white belts which was really tiring but a lot of fun.
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#435486 - 10/02/12 06:22 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Today we did Tai Sabaki for Ippon Seoinage with one of the black belts from the advanced Judo class. The class was a lot more focussed on getting the right timing for the throw at full speed which still feels awkward for me. I'm reminded just how much of a beginner I am and just how much I still have yet to learn in Judo... It's daunting but at least I have a lot to look forward to.
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#435532 - 10/26/12 03:44 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Yesterday we covered Harai Goshi and moved onto Hane Goshi. Hane Goshi actually seems to be easier for me, more comfortable and the kuzushi is faster to do. I'm glad we're covering new throws again. smile
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#435668 - 01/30/13 04:15 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Yesterday we trained arm bars from inside the guard and from the mount. I also experienced my first triangle choke which was quite a bit faster than other chokes I've experienced.
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#435693 - 02/28/13 04:11 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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Yesterday I joined the intermediate Judo class. They really do things differently there.

The classes are much longer and we only spend a small portion of the time training techniques.

Most of the class time is spent on Tai-Sabaki and Randori. Also, I did my first Newaza randori, which was really tricky. I have no idea what positions and transitions are safe. Attacking an opponent in this class is perilous, one wrong movement and you're pinned, in an arm bar or choked. I really need to work on this a lot more.

I'm also learning that it's much more difficult to throw someone who really understands randori. If you move and put yourself off balance even slightly for a split second, your opponent will throw you. Since I need to move in to attack, it seems like a huge risk every time I go for a throw.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (02/28/13 04:16 AM)
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#435748 - 04/03/13 04:47 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
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One of the things I'm learning right now as an adult beginner is that there isn't a really well defined path from beginner to intermediate. This is something that I didn't expect when starting Judo.

In the beginner's class we're mostly slowly practicing technique but since there are so few beginners and they don't really seem to stay for that long, we're constantly re-learning stuff from step one.

I tried out the intermediate class but there's very little explanation of techniques and we're dropped into randori straight away and almost everyone has trained in Judo since childhood except for me. I'm finding it difficult to develop fluency with the movements and I feel like I'm holding my training partners back in that class.

What I really need to do right now is lots and lots of Uchikomi and Tai-Sabaki until I get comfortable with doing the movements at speed but we do almost none of that in the beginner's class. The children's class does a lot of this stuff but the adult beginners don't seem to be around long enough to get to the point where they can do lots of Uchikomi.

Right now I'm trying to pair up with black belts who want to warm up for the class after mine just to do 20 minutes of Uchikomi at the end of my class. I'll have to figure out another way to get the numbers, I'll probably get some resistance bands to train at home.
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#435751 - 04/04/13 10:29 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Sounds like an issue with the class Leo. Every Judo class I've been to does Uchikomi. Everyone does it, from beginners to advanced students. The advance class sounds more like a randori based session.

See if you can find a training partner to drill Uchikomi with (no throws!) before class. Or worse case scenario, look for another Judo class. Your experience isn't something I've went through, it could just be the school you are with doing things differently.

Just a hunch, but does a different coach take the beginners classes and the advance classes?
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"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#435752 - 04/05/13 02:33 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I think it's because the adult beginner's class is so small. I have arranged to stay after class for an hour to do Uchikomi with the coach. The beginner class is mostly just static throws onto the crash mat.

Yes, the coach for the intermediate class has a very different style of teaching. He's pretty hands-off and assumes that you're fluent with your Uchikomi. All of the people in that class have done Judo since they were kids.

People in the intermediate class were pretty surprised to hear that I only started Judo a few months ago. They were very supportive and helpful but I just couldn't keep up with them. There aren't many adult beginners here.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (04/05/13 02:36 AM)
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#435753 - 04/05/13 08:01 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
iaibear Offline
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Glad for you that they were so accommodating.
Good luck to you.

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#435754 - 04/06/13 02:13 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Thanks iaibear! smile

I'm in this for the long haul. No matter how long it takes, I'll become skilled in Judo.
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#435755 - 04/06/13 09:58 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Funny. :-)
That's the way I feel about Aikido
Into it since 1994 and still can't do a forward roll.

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#435757 - 04/15/13 12:31 PM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Just had my first knee injury ever. I twisted my knee while side stepping. I only had my own weight on my leg but it just collapsed out under me, bending sideways slightly.

There was a doctor at the Dojo who determined that it might have been a minor dislocation. We iced it immediately at the Dojo. I'm still able to move my toes and ankle without pain and after two days of RICE, I've regained some range of motion. Hopefully it's not a tear, I'm going to visit my GP today or tomorrow to get a diagnosis. I'm already wearing a knee brace in the meantime and continuing RICE in bed all day.
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Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#435759 - 04/16/13 05:26 AM Re: Leo's Judo Journal [Re: Leo_E_49]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Hey Leo,

Sorry to hear about your injury. As I said in your BJJ or Judo thread, it was the injuries that kept me out of Judo frown I've been at BJJ steady for nearly a year and no injuries. Just generally a safer art, although it does depend on how you train.

Rest up and I hope you recover quickly. As much as you might want to succeed at Judo, it's not worth doing long term damage to yourself. As my old coach use to say, if you want a black belt in Judo you pay in pain and suffering. You have to ask yourself is that a price you are willing to pay, and the way it might effect your life long term.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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