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#434296 - 12/08/11 05:57 AM Steps towards application
Ives Offline

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
A recent thread made me realise that some school might not have a clear method to bridge the gap between kihon and kumite in this case.

How does your karate school work towards kumite?

Maybe you are thrown in at day one, maybe you dabble with kihon for quite some time.

What are the possible up- and downsides on this approach?

#434304 - 12/10/11 12:07 AM Re: Steps towards application [Re: Ives]
hope Offline

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
I've seen people "thrown in at day one", and people who do kihon for a long time before kumite. The places where I've trained, students can opt to do kumite or not, their choice. So far, my observation (from a limited sample) is that the early starters seem to do better in kumite. However, I don't know if this is because the timing makes a difference, or because different types of people opt to start early.

One frustrating observation is that some students do beautifully in kihon but it doesn't translate at all to their movements in kumite, even when minutes apart.
God grant me a good sword and no use for it. -- Polish proverb

#434310 - 12/12/11 10:55 AM Re: Steps towards application [Re: hope]
gojuman59 Offline

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri

I go back to my TKD days on this. I agree that usually kumite improves when started early in the process.The key being that kihon must be a priority or the kumite will be very sloppy. There should be an emphasis on structure of the strikes and time spent on footwork.Too often I've seen people in kumite that weren't grounded very well in the basics. They get out there and pound it out.Some are successful just on sheer strength. They over power their opponent.This will take you just so far.The key for the less imposing fighter is to have better technique. This comes from the kihon practice.


#434311 - 12/13/11 06:02 AM Re: Steps towards application [Re: gojuman59]
Ives Offline

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
What we do is we start with actual kumite from around 5th kyu (green belt level). We spend a long time in kihon before going into contact training. There are certain steps between kihon and our jiyu-kumite.
Yakusoku-kihon-kumite: prearranged basic techniques,
Tangan-kumite: eye-training,
Yakusoku-ippon-kumite: prearranged one-attack,
Kakari: only attack, open guard may be tapped by uke,
Jiyu-ippon-kumite: one-attack free of choice,
Jiyu-kumite: (bogu) free attacks full contact. (
And Jigen kempo: multiple opponents. This format can have different stages aswell.)
We use this way to gradually adapt to being hit and hit.
The first to stages mentioned above will start at 9th kyu, the actual attacks (full contact, but controlled) only start at 5th kyu.
Green belts that put on the bogu and do kumite usually have three types of reactions.
First: the blind, vision turns 'red' and the slugfest starts, shinpan is hardly heard at this stage.
Second: intimidated, after the first knock they question if they want to do this (some stop karate from this point).
Third: Oh, so this is what they mean by getting hit, let see what I can make of this.

This last reaction is what we hope for in our students. This is the right attitude: do and learn. They will see it as training, not as 'blind fury'.

#434312 - 12/13/11 08:27 AM Re: Steps towards application [Re: Ives]
iaibear Offline

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Google and Wikipedia give meanings from daimyo relatives to heart pain with a side trip to Anime pinups. You mentioned it can be heard.
A bit of clarification would be appreciated.

#434313 - 12/13/11 06:00 PM Re: Steps towards application [Re: iaibear]
Ives Offline

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
That would be a judge/referee in a shiai setting.
I'm used to Japanese or Dutch terms in regards to my karate training so please excuse me.
EDIT: By hearing shinpan I mean their calls/judgements/decisions.

Edited by Ives (12/13/11 06:02 PM)
Edit Reason: adding

#434314 - 12/13/11 10:46 PM Re: Steps towards application [Re: Ives]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
The "Three K's" of Karate (Kihon, Kata & Kumite)... obviously Kihon is the foundation upon which everything else is built. But here is where most "traditional" schools fall short (IMHO). They see the perfection of kata & kumite as the goal of physical training. Such training is for competition-based schools.

I believe that kihon needs to be constantly trained during kata & kumite because kata & kumite are training tools, not the goal. The basics of the self-defense element are much different than those within tournament related skills. The reason many people fall is because they haven't mastered the Kihon of movement (stances).

Try to tell someone that stance training is important & they'll roll their eyes and ask you if you can do a jumping-spinning kick. Guess who lands on their butt the most?

(I'm baa-aack... heh-heh-heh)
Ed Ichihara Smith - Shukokai

#434315 - 12/14/11 12:03 AM Re: Steps towards application [Re: Ives]
iaibear Offline

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Thank you

#434329 - 12/20/11 02:14 PM Re: Steps towards application [Re: iaibear]
Ives Offline

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
One reason to focus on kihon in the early stages of kumite is the lower risk of injuries.
If you can lift you knee high enough to kick chudan, you'r less likely to hit someone in the privates.
Good kihon can also result in less fatigue, because strength isn't that necessairy to hit hard. This can also result in fewer injuries, because when fatigued things get sloppy.


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