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#434185 - 11/18/11 05:07 PM Martial Arts
EFRAIN Offline

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Clifton, NJ USA
Why does Martial Arts have to have names? Ex-Taekwondo, Jujitsu, Judo, Karate, Muay Thai? I mean If taught correctly they all have the same alpha & Omega!
Also you have what I consider Martial Arts & and arts that are Martial. Examples are when you take Martial Arts and make it a sport like Olympic TKD, Judo, Boxing & even MMA(Yes I said MMA). Making a Martial Arts into a sport really takes away the art in it and it also waters down the system as we can see in Olympic TKD.
I say keep it a Martial Art and teach it the way it was meant to be taught while taking into consideration that we are not in the 1100 or 1800 century. Meaning let the art evolve. After all it is an art and all types of art evolve throughout the centuries.
and..... I think all Martial arts should be called just as the name implies, "Martial Arts". Martial Arts is not about culture, people or place anymore it's more than that if you really think about it. Wether its Brazilian Jiujitsu, Capoeira, Taekwondo, Muay Thai or Karate, now a days it doesn't matter. It has become a worldwide culture and because of that they will evolve more in this era than they have in previous. It's a Martial Art Pandemic, a' phenomena!

Bow out with respect,


#434186 - 11/19/11 09:17 AM Re: Martial Arts [Re: EFRAIN]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Hmmm, interesting. But I'd suggest many MA's have a philosophy born out of a particular cultural and historical background.

For example: Chang Hon (ITF) TKD bases it's patterns on figures from Korean history and mythology, which are supposed to inspire the student.

Judo was developed by Jigoro Kano partly as a character building form of exercise, where many dangerous moves were removed from earlier JJ systems. This made it ideal as a sport(and Kano was all for it being used as one). The question is, how would it have developed if it had stayed as pre-Kano JJ?

Judo was developed as a "gentle-way" 9although highly effective), without that philosophy it would just be like MMA.

The term "Art" reflects the character building, the expression of ones-self through the practice. Without the philosphy behind it it just becomes an all-in style with no restraint imposed on the practitioner.
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

#434187 - 11/19/11 11:04 AM Re: Martial Arts [Re: trevek]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2577
Additionally, people do have their "natural" range. Some people like to kick, some people like to punch, some people like to grapple etc..... Roger Gracie, the world's No1 BJJ athlete, has also had some MMA fights. He said he would far rather do BJJ than MMA (suspect the MMA thing was purely for money).

As Trevek mentioned, where a martial art comes from tells you a lot about it's culture e.g. the oft told story of Karate being born out of Okinawans not being allowed to use weapons etc....

Terminology from the culture of origin is useful too. I could go in to a Judo school in France or Spain (can't really speak either French or Spanish) but I would be able to follow the class because the universal terminology of Judo is in Japanese.

Regarding the "watering down" of Martial Arts, you also say arts need to "evolve"... Take an old Koryu art as learnt by the Samurai. They learnt to use particular weapons in these arts because of way military combat was conducted in Japan at that time. What use would Koryu arts be to a modern soldier? Not much.

The world is a more peaceful place than it was in the past. People in the developed world simply don't have much use for martial arts anymore. Martial arts with a sporting component are the evolution of old arts past. Judo is the evolution of old Jujutsu: A sport created in peaceful times that acknowledges it's roots while making it relevant to the modern world. People in the developed world simply don't have the same use for "deadly" martial arts anymore. Which is surely to be welcomed, right?
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

#434188 - 11/19/11 11:47 AM Re: Martial Arts [Re: Prizewriter]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
EFRAIN, I'm not sure I agree with everything you wrote there. Converting a martial art to a sport does not remove the art, IMHO. One could make a case that the sport versions are closer to "art" in the case of sport TKD, BJJ, Judo, etc, because the sport rules of these versions have gone to a more aesthetic and less self-defense, practical route.

As Trevek and PW have noted, some styles were designed specifically for a purpose or with a cultural sentiment in mind, so they will not have the same alpha and omega. TKD in particular was purposefully given a very different emphasis from the Japanese styles it was based on.

And lastly, some styles are not really styles at all, but training methods. MMA can be trained as sport or self defense, the emphasis being on training with resistance as much as possible.

I do agree that less emphasis on individual styles would be helpful in getting more people to train in a practical way (for those who expect that their training should be practical), and I train martial arts, too. smile
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#434189 - 11/19/11 01:33 PM Re: Martial Arts [Re: MattJ]
Zach_Zinn Offline

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
I think it's totally normal that there arts which favor a certain approach, everyone is best at something.
Far as the art vs. sport thing..
It really comes down to knowing what someone is training for, sport training is only 'watered down' if it's presented as being all-inclusive, such as claiming that competitive Judo is a well-rounded self defense program. Mind you this doesn't mean the sport stuff can't get used for self defense, only that that isn't the aim of the training. That's really all there is to it IMO, knowing what you are training for and trying to be effective at that.

I don't think arts 'evolve' as much as people think they do, in terms of what is physically effective with empty hand arts obviously nothing changes much, what really changes is the way the arts are passed down, and the expectations, experience, and capabilities of the people learning them.

#434190 - 11/19/11 03:16 PM Re: Martial Arts [Re: Zach_Zinn]
EFRAIN Offline

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Clifton, NJ USA
Guys, I posted this for a reason and it was to see what people think and get some feedback which I did smile. I agree with everyone comment posted from what I posted.

This is how I learn new ways to think and do things. The more Martial Art information I can dig out the better, of course some I will agree with and some I won't but hey that is how it is with everyone & everything. smile


Bow out with respect from,

#434191 - 11/19/11 03:29 PM Re: Martial Arts [Re: EFRAIN]
EFRAIN Offline

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Clifton, NJ USA
Come check out my facebook community page, your'e all welcome to post and comment smile Hopefully I can find an admin. Enjoy

#434195 - 11/20/11 12:50 AM Re: Martial Arts [Re: EFRAIN]
Matakiant Offline

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 128
Well firstly the number of techniques that can be used in combat are in the thousands so having an universal martial art is simply impossible due to the number of possibilities in techniques.

The other thing you have to understand is that martial arts the different martial arts evolved in different places and under different conditions. The conditions being the weapons that were used in local warfare, the armors and the strategies and even the philosophy.

The different conditions created the different techniques and focuses in martial arts. Conditions dictated the evolution of martial arts.

Focus on speed or power or mobility basically combat doctrines these all evolved based on the nature of warfare in the birthplace of the martial art.

That's why we have different styles to begin with. And why we still have different styles there are a lot of different methods and different opinions many of which work and many of which work more than others.

A style of martial arts is like a school of philosophy..

The inpracticality of many different styles is really a whole other subject.

#434196 - 11/20/11 08:42 AM Re: Martial Arts [Re: Matakiant]
iaibear Offline

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
And do not forget that many schools of Martial Arts evolved when nations were conquered and forbidden the ownership &/or use of weapons. Hence all the empty-hands arts. Not to mention the appearance of exotic weapons that strongly resemble farm equipment.

#434204 - 11/21/11 05:16 AM Re: Martial Arts [Re: iaibear]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I'd also add the geography of the regions where certain styles originated and the type of opponent.

In many rural areas, types of wrestling may (have) predominate(d), as many people would have had shorter muscles for lifting and doing very physical work. Also, the styles might be relative to who they might (have) be(en) used on (ie Backhold wrestling invloves a left arm over right arm hold, trapping a potential sword arm).

Some styles are more connected with urban environment, like Wing Chun, where there is less room.
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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