FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 42 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 2
charlie 2
Matakiant 1
ergees 1
William_Bent 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#433617 - 08/14/11 07:50 AM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: Matakiant]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: Matakiant
It entirely depends.. If a Karate practitioner has mastered the principles of hara then yes they are very hard to take down.

But 90-98% never come close to it.




That is very true. In our Goju ryu we often work on this concept of hara. It's like water through your fingers.I keep working on it.All I know is when it's locked in you are grounded and virtually a rock at your base. A terrific concept that I struggle to implement.One day it will click I guess. I sure hope it does.

Mark

Top
#433618 - 08/14/11 11:16 AM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: gojuman59]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I've heard a lot of theory about "hara" in Aikido. Similar to what you guys are talking about in Karate though, a lot of Aikido-ka talk a good game but can't actually demonstrate what they are talking about.

Additionally, the "hara" in Aikido is usually only tested against a slow, gradual push or pull. Aside from one Aikido-ka, the only people I've seen (and experienced first hand) who can stay rooted against resisting, uncooperative opponents who are pushing and pulling them are some experienced Taijiquan folks.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#433619 - 08/14/11 01:49 PM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: Prizewriter]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
I've met Karate people who have that kind of stuff, but they aren't common, and it's to do with the training, big surprise.

I agree that many aiki people and internal artists talk alot about the theory, but can't demo it effectively.

Top
#433620 - 08/14/11 04:46 PM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: Zach_Zinn]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri



The interesting thing about this concept is that the lower body feels like it's planted to the center of the earth, while the upper body flows like a branch of a willow tree in the wind. There's a sensitivity that I strive to work on.Not being able to relax makes this virtually impossible. If one is too tense they will be easy to take down.

Mark

Top
#433621 - 08/14/11 05:18 PM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: gojuman59]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I've heard that sort of thing in Aikido before. TBH I found a lot of the Aikido explanations a bit wooly, but then again thats probably my lack of imagination. They were very heavy on poetry and very light on actual detail.

In Chinese Internal arts (the little I did) and Qi Gong they got in to a lot more of the nuts and bolts of the thing, such as excercises to increase fascia control and opening vertebrae to make the body like a spring that absorbs force.

I preferred the latter approach but that was just me. I'm not suggesting either that just because someone happens to teach Neijia they will be able to tell you about rooting and absorbing force. There are a lot of poor Taiji teachers about. That said, having studied Aikido for a few years I've found there is a HECK of a lot more knowledge and expertize on the subject of rooting and power absorption/generation in Neijia arts than there is in Aikido. As for how much of that sort of knowledge exists in Karate and as to how well it is shared... well, you guys will know better than me because I haven't got a clue.



Edited by Prizewriter (08/14/11 05:20 PM)
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#433623 - 08/15/11 12:48 PM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
Yes the previous explanations suffice as well.

In my style of Karate it is more often talked about as ''rooting''.

I think it's generally a lost principle in Karate. I only know a few people in my own style who can ''do it'' - I'm not one of them. My ''roots'' are quite weak but I suppose it's a matter of practice when I began and was first introduced to the concept I was far far more miserable than I am now laugh


Edited by Matakiant (08/15/11 12:49 PM)

Top
#433625 - 08/15/11 07:22 PM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: Matakiant]
Razma Offline
Member

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 36
To answer prizewriter's question in the break fall drill we fall down spring back up and assume a fighting stance and the partner pushes us back. Using a fast quick strike kind of push instead of gently pushing. Another goal of the drill is getting up fast. The second our back hits the floor our partner starts counting if they get to 5 seconds it means pushups. So we have to spring to our feet and get our footing and assume a stance quickly before we get checked.

We don't do specifically rooting drills but the partner holding the pad during punching drills is supposed to stand there without falling back. Another thing we do is during kata my sensei and his assistants go around Putting a stiff arm there when we're doing blocks.

Another thing my sensei likes to do is when we're practicing stance and techniques he goes around pushing down where he thinks we're weak. One time he pushed me straight to the ground just from pushing on my back leg from front stance.

As for the kind of sacrifice throw. We started on the ground already, starting position him sitting one foot on the ground the other cross legged. We touched hands signifying go although I didn't know that at the time and was leaning forward on my knees he grabbed my arm and guided me down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtI5CMeZ1sM

Basically, like that only we were both already on the ground and a lot softer.

Top
#433627 - 08/16/11 05:40 AM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: Razma]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
How'd you end up face down on the floor from that lol!? I'd understand if you ended up on your back but you must be landing in an odd way if you are going face down.

What is your posture like at the start? The problem with people in BJJ is that they always think they have to be doing something. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing...just posture up, let the other person try and break your posture down.

Try this for a starting posture: Sit in Seiza, good posture, head up. This is a defensive starting posture in grappling. With good posture your opponent will have to work to pull you down and break your posture. If your posture is good as you imply it is, sitting in Seiza will give you a starting point. Don't worry about anything straight away other than keeping this posture. Even if the coach tells you to try a move, don't. Let him break you down.

Here is a posture breaking drill. You want to avoid getting pulled down like this when you are in Seiza. Note the guy posturing up has his hands on his opponents hips to reduce his movement:

_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#433628 - 08/16/11 07:33 AM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: Prizewriter]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:
The problem with people in BJJ is that they always think they have to be doing something. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing...just posture up, let the other person try and break your posture down.


Sometimes that can work, but the problem is - as you noted - the opponent in BJJ has also been trained to do something, so sitting there in good posture will only work for so long. The other person will be attempting sweeps or reversals. Very important to not let them get grips or wrist control.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#433629 - 08/16/11 07:41 AM Re: Hard to take down? [Re: MattJ]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Agree with that Matt, but I honestly couldn't think of anything else to advise a beginner to do over the internet. Keeping posture seemed like a good starting point. At least if Razma can get that down then Razma will have a "go to" position if Razma doesn't know what else to do. Additionally doing things like breaking grips or defending that Seiza posture is somewhere to start.

I probably shouldn't be trying to coach someone over the internet though lol!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga