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#433522 - 08/04/11 01:01 AM This is TKD???
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
This video about the Korean Tiger TKD demonstration team show great acrobatics ... but is this a fighting art??? Looks more like dancing than fighting.

Alex Gillis was right.

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#433523 - 08/04/11 02:00 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Shusha Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 37

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#433531 - 08/04/11 10:47 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Shusha]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Better than the first one, but still overly formalized. I think TKD has degenerated into garbage.

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#433534 - 08/05/11 10:41 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
Better than the first one, but still overly formalized. I think TKD has degenerated into garbage.


I love these quotes. You have to put what you are looking at into prospective. First, these are demo teams whose sole purpose is to entertain and you see it in EVERY ART! You see it in the chinese arts when they're dancing around the floor swinging those big weapons around. Is that reality or practical? You should not be judging the art on this basis.Its like sparring, is that reality, sure it has benefits (endurance,strategy, seeing if you can take a hit), but its NOT self defense! The art is as good as the person training in it and HOW they train in it. If your training to be on the demo team and need to have gymnastic abilities, thats how you train. If you compete, your training for sparring in the rule set of the format you are looking to compete in (just look at the UFC "TUF" program).If you are looking to train in self defense, then you need to disect the art and look at how it can be applied. Most arts are not that different when you start to look at fundamentals. Thats what you should be judging.

VDJ

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#433535 - 08/05/11 03:12 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: VDJ]
Shusha Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 37
The intent of the demonstrations is not the same as the intent of the art in general, so it is unrealistic to judge the entire art by the demonstrations alone. Also, as far as I'm concerned, TKD and many arts are much more than just self-defense. (Hence the "art").

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#433538 - 08/06/11 03:42 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Shusha]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
Sorry but that's just [censored]

If some arts demonstration is all acrobatics and showmanship do you really think they train for the opposite? That's just a ridiculous notion that only someone feeling offended would say.

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#433542 - 08/06/11 10:58 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Matakiant]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Some do train for the opposite. Not many but some do. It's not right to generalize and throw all of them under the bus.
This was a demo for entertainment purposes.While I don't like the shallowness the art,there are some real good fighters out there.The problem is that most of the techniques they know are of the sport variety.I've moved on to Goju and never have regretted this decision.


Mark


Edited by gojuman59 (08/06/11 11:00 AM)

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#433543 - 08/06/11 02:16 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: gojuman59]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
The problem is that it's very hard to differentiate the dance/sport variety from the fighting variety. Oh, yes, you can tell after a few visits to the individual school, but, when a school calls itself a TKD school and wants to train for real self-defence, it may be seen as part of the larger dance variety.

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#433557 - 08/08/11 09:40 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
The problem is that it's very hard to differentiate the dance/sport variety from the fighting variety. Oh, yes, you can tell after a few visits to the individual school, but, when a school calls itself a TKD school and wants to train for real self-defence, it may be seen as part of the larger dance variety.


Not if you treat searching for a reputable school as has been soooooooo many times on this board, interview the head instuctor/owner of the school! Ask the pertinent questions, what are your qualifications? What is your focus (competition/SD)? Watch mutiple classes for a couple of weeks so you REALLY see what is being taught. Talk to existing students! If there's a very high children student body, chances are they are geared toward a softer training regimen. Use common sense thats all!

VDJ

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#433559 - 08/08/11 11:51 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: VDJ]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
I agree VDJ.Classes with mostly children is a sure sign that the meat of the training is probably fairly soft.
I remember back when I trained in TKD we only sparred hard in the late adult class. The early class was more of a glorified baby setting session.There was a definite difference in the approach of our instructer between the two classes.Even as it was the adult class didn't work on the self-defense aspects of the art very often.While our focus wasn't olympic TKD(don't get me started) the fighting we did was of the sparring variety only.Self-defense was basically not a high priority.


Mark

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#433561 - 08/08/11 04:38 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: gojuman59]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
So am I to understand that some of you would grade an army's fighting skill on what you see on the drill square or a military tattoo?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#433564 - 08/08/11 07:13 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: trevek]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
A drill is not a demonstration.

If a group of people train for acrobatics they are 90% likely not training in contact - no contact = only acrobatics, sports.

Even if someone trains for acrobatics and contact their wasting their time and technique for something entirely SUPERFICIAL. Most of all if you train for sd, contact fighting WHY WHY WHY make a demo that is just SILLY?

I don't get it sorry need to go back and start all over I guess.

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#433575 - 08/10/11 04:04 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Matakiant]
Shusha Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 37
Originally Posted By: Matakiant
Sorry but that's just [censored]

If some arts demonstration is all acrobatics and showmanship do you really think they train for the opposite? That's just a ridiculous notion that only someone feeling offended would say.



I'm not actually a fan of the acrobatics and showmanship, myself. At the same time real self defense can not possibly be demonstrated because you can't possibly re-create an authentic self-defense scenario on a stage. One can not realistically and authentically re-create a visceral, true-to-life self defense scenario in the dojang. One might be able to come close, but never authentically replicate a real life experience. We train in artificial circumstances. All of us.

The purpose of the demo is not to replicate real life (neither the real life of modern day street self-defense nor the real life of the military conditions under which the art in question was developed).

To assume the demonstrations convey the full depth, scope and magnitude of the art is to assume a movie trailer gives you the entire plot of a movie.

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#433576 - 08/10/11 07:18 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Shusha]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
The movie trailer gives you a preview of what to expect in the movie.

So if the demonstration gives you a preview of acrobatics, silly showmanship and breaking boards then that's what you should expect.

Martial arts existed quite well without demos and demos used to exist a long time ago as well just in different forms.

These demos are just a result of modern culture and marketing - everything needs to be cool, mystical, kung fu movie-like or nobody will come to our school!

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#433590 - 08/11/11 04:36 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Matakiant]
math.princess Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 1
Originally Posted By: Matakiant
Sorry but that's just [censored]

If some arts demonstration is all acrobatics and showmanship do you really think they train for the opposite? That's just a ridiculous notion that only someone feeling offended would say.



In my school there is a demo team and a team for competitions (forms and sparing)they happen to be the same team. It depends on the school. In the best schools, both the "art part" and the practical part are both stressed equally.

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#433591 - 08/11/11 06:28 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: math.princess]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Another point worth considering is that demos (such as those shown in the clips) might not be to everyones taste, but they can be useful at attracting new students. A lot of quality TKD practioners may have first gotten interested in the art because they saw a flashy demo way back when.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#433597 - 08/12/11 12:36 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Prizewriter]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Interesting, is it not.

imagine trying to defend yourself agains several attackers using these techniques from the video
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#433600 - 08/12/11 06:51 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I'll still bet good money that there have been high level TKD practioners who got involved with TKD after witnessing a demo. Maybe the demo was a flashy show designed to attract the attention of people who didn't know a lot about martial arts? Many martial arts give public demonstrations, partially to attract new students. That doesn't mean the content of the demo is what the student learns.

One example off the top of my head (although not a TKD example) is that Steven Seagal got involved in martial arts after watching an Aikido demo at the half time show in an American football game when he was a child. Regardless of what you think of Seagal as a person or an actor, the guy got to a very high level in martial arts (high rank in Aikido, taught a Japanese martial art in Japan). That all started by watching a demo.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#433615 - 08/13/11 10:52 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: trevek]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Originally Posted By: trevek
So am I to understand that some of you would grade an army's fighting skill on what you see on the drill square or a military tattoo?


Military history is full of armies that know how to drill, dress well ... and do poorly in the battlefield.

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#433624 - 08/15/11 04:45 PM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan


Military history is full of armies that know how to drill, dress well ... and do poorly in the battlefield.


and vice versa.

There are also displays by extremely efficient fighting units which are simply for fun.

Let's face it, effective fighting isn't necessarily that interesting to watch as a demo.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#435097 - 04/19/12 07:27 AM Re: This is TKD??? [Re: trevek]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
What's the difference between "Normal" TKD and this
TAEKWON-DO
This isn’t the same Tae-Kwon-Do you took as a kid! This contemporary class focuses on the traditional techniques of Taekwon-Do revisited for today’s martial arts world.
Instructor: Todd Creason – USTF/ITF 5th dan Black belt; Class A International Instructor with 30+ years instructing experience; Class B International Referee. Dobak(uniform) optional.

http://www.bjmuta.com/classes/
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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