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#433116 - 07/06/11 04:14 PM Re: Stances [Re: Razma]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Interesting thread. Stances can be viewed in several different ways, one of which is, as stated previously, is a platform from which to throw your techniques in the most beneficial way possible for your body to put weight behind them. This is regardless of style. Though each systems' take on stance might be somewhat different, you are not, for example learning to throw effective punches from a horse stance or easily learn to give a good side kick from a forward leaning boxing stance (though I have seen people do this).

So you can define stances in a couple of ways: 1) Where it's just a snap shot of where your body is when moving from point A to B; or 2) As a mechanical structure to intuit your system's fundamental power channeling capability to throw good, effective techniques. In the latter case, I think it's good to get a foundation from this traditional background and then to be able to subtley change this later when expertise becomes greater, since every one's body is a little different anyway. But the mechanics of throwing a good punch really don't alter that much within a system and need a proper foundation to feed it.

Just as a side note, if you have been trained in a good kibadachi and a good front stance (whatever your style calls it), you now have two stances to use in throwing an opponent and controlling his downward motion. That's when you start to realize that some of the traditional stuff has merit outside the box and have applications in other ways.


#433153 - 07/09/11 01:20 AM Re: Stances [Re: Razma]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3119
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Razma:

Stances are FUNDAMENTAL to power generation. Without them, power cannot be explored intelligently. Randomly, haphazardly there is NO simple way to consistantly explore power generation. One way one day, a totally different method, radically different body parts the next. Foolish chaos...

You start from extremely common positions, feet, hips, hands. With starting positions (ie stances) you map what causes power and what does not. Examined long enough and you run "face first" into all the other stances of a given art.

What happens when we are very balanced, (low hips wide stance) how do you cause power from that position? Hey what causes power when you actively tuck your pelvis, and hips actively under rather than tilted them outward? What happens when you turn both your feet inward in a narrow stance... what happens then? Can power be generated by doing so <wg>? What happens when you are putting weight only on one foot... how does that create power? Can power be generated with one foot BEHIND the other (reverse T, reverse cat, etc.)

What are the dangers, the tangible vulnerabilities of any of the above... Stances cause us to organize and create serious power from seemingly vulnerable positions. Stances challenge us to generate power from different structural alignments, using different muscles, and sequences of contraction and release.

Stances also provide structure with which to EFFECTIVELY maintain a dynamic position, or in the alternative go forward. Structure, and being efficent with it is a serious, critical lesson of all positions/stances. Stances even those done solely standing still (generic stance training) are pure gold... if we are even half awake!


#433164 - 07/09/11 09:37 AM Re: Stances [Re: Ronin1966]
gojuman59 Offline

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Thanks, Ronin 1966. That was a great posting.You explained things real well.


#433432 - 07/24/11 02:57 PM Re: Stances [Re: gojuman59]
karateknowledge Offline

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 4
Everyone's replies are really interesting!

If you consider the creating of traditional kata back in the day: fighters putting what worked for them into a set pattern so it can easily be passed on, stances would just be an average of hundreds of real life trials.

For example, you step forward, block an attack and throw a punch. Only after the fact will you look down and notice the position of your feet. So I think stances were what felt most comfortable for the fighter at the time.

And when that initial stance got categorized, people then looked at proper body alignment and further generation of power/stability through the stance aka "why it worked"

I say, at first do what feels comfortable for you to generate power, and then adjust to the proper form once you're more in tune with your body. There's no reason to throw away centuries of research, cause the old masters pretty much did the work for us.

Good luck with your training

#433435 - 07/25/11 08:24 AM Re: Stances [Re: karateknowledge]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Originally Posted By: karateknowledge
I say, at first do what feels comfortable for you to generate power, and then adjust to the proper form once you're more in tune with your body.

You say? That's what Funakoshi said mister!

Beginners must master low stance and posture, natural body positions are for the advanced.

He also said.

Practicing a kata is one thing, engaging in a real fight is another.

In other words, stances are transitional.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#433446 - 07/26/11 10:28 PM Re: Stances [Re: BrianS]
Shonuff Offline

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 604
Loc: London, UK
Careful Brian, your dogma is showing.

Stances are indeed transitional, except when they are not.
It's Shotokan not Shoto-can't!!!

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