FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 30 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SenseiGregT, sagat, JFawkes, pluckysaga39, sgtdemeo
22911 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 5
AndyLA 5
Ed_Morris 4
futsaowingchun 3
ergees 3
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Recent Posts
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
08/29/14 10:50 PM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/28/14 02:39 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
08/16/14 04:59 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Forum Stats
22911 Members
36 Forums
35573 Topics
432484 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#432977 - 06/28/11 10:47 AM Getting new white belts.
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
In my Goju ryu club it seems that it's the same tight group that shows up to workout. While we are friends and enjoy working out, it seems that there isn't anyone coming up behind us to keep the club filled up. Our club isn't a profit making venture for my sensei, but I'm sure that there are times that he probably could use some more students to round things out.
I've found that it's difficult to get new students because everyone is so busy with their daily lives. This and the attitude of some people. You know the types. "Thats too much work." or "When do we learn to ---- someone up."
It appears that our society has made us in such a hurry that we won't take the time needed to gain understanding of the art aspect of some things.
Has anyone out there experienced anything similar to this at your club/school?

keep training, Mark

Top
#432979 - 06/28/11 11:44 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yes. But then, my teachers don't advertise and are happy as a small group of advanced belts.

I've found that advertising using simple handouts has worked pretty well. Simple description, class times available and a phone number. The phone call weeds them out. After that, the ones that actually show up for an intitial interview and class intro are ones that stay. I've got 4 private students, 'white belts', at this point from it. An average of one student per month of pamphleting.



Edited by harlan (06/28/11 11:52 AM)

Top
#432980 - 06/28/11 12:22 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Thanks Harlan. I think that I will bring up the handouts idea to my sensei and see what he thinks about that. I would imagine that the phone contact would separate the kooks from the serious inquiries.

keep training, Mark

Top
#432981 - 06/28/11 12:50 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Yeah, that sounds familiar.

Getting brand new people to stick with adult Karate training is hard..don't take it personally when they leave. It can also be intimidating for new people to be in a class with lots of higher ranks, but the conundrum is it's hard to get new people!

Probably one out of every ten inquiries will actually show up, and when you have people call with a list of questions "do you do X", "why don't you Y"..you can expect that whatever you do, you probably won't satisfy those people.

Quote:
Has anyone out there experienced anything similar to this at your club/school?


Yes, I have had a little dojo on and off for about five years, and one constant is that you will have a core group, and a revolving door of other people, eventually someone that walks through that door may stay, but it may take some time.

So far i'm going with Harlan's suggestion on the flyers also..but i've been most successful simply with word of mouth..emailing people I know..and "tell your friends" type stuff.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (06/28/11 12:51 PM)

Top
#432982 - 06/28/11 01:17 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: Zach_Zinn]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
You know we might have trouble getting new white belts because they have heard of some of our killer workouts. I tried to explain this to a new white belt. You know.. try your best.. go at your own speed..nobody is keeping score. I just think that he thought that he couldn't keep up in the fitness dept.Ah!!The memories.My first class as a white belt I thought that I would pass out.
I guess it comes down to what level of work are you willing to put in.

Mark

Top
#432983 - 06/28/11 01:24 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: gojuman59
You know we might have trouble getting new white belts because they have heard of some of our killer workouts. I tried to explain this to a new white belt. You know.. try your best.. go at your own speed..nobody is keeping score. I just think that he thought that he couldn't keep up in the fitness dept.Ah!!The memories.My first class as a white belt I thought that I would pass out.
I guess it comes down to what level of work are you willing to put in.

Mark


Honestly I doubt it, in fact i've found that as far as Karate classes go conditioning heavy ones are easier to fill, there is always a certain section that is wanting that more than anything else. I've seen more people get turned off by contact (even fairly minimal) than by hard physical exercise. Fitness is probably a bigger draw for new people than combative stuff.

I doubt it's anything you are doing or not doing, small traditional dojos just are hard to keep adult students in, most people don't stick with the arts..that's just how things are, I doubt it's anything about your specific class causing this to happen. Just pump up that core group, get a slow trickle of others coming through and you're good..at least that's what i'm trying to do..


Edited by Zach_Zinn (06/28/11 01:31 PM)

Top
#432984 - 06/28/11 02:10 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: Zach_Zinn]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Thanks Mr.Z. I needed to see this from a different prospective. I guess that I always thought that the exertion of the workout drove people off.
Here's another reason I think might turn off beginners. The techniques that are taught to white belts in the beginning can be kind of boring. Building a base is the way to do it, but some want to run before they crawl. The movies have convinced some that they too can do the jump-spinning-levatating-killer defeating kick of death. These people aren't gonna want to spend hours walking in Sanchin. It's too bad that ego driven attitudes turn people away from TMA. I guess it all comes down to your motivation to train.

Mark

Top
#432985 - 06/28/11 02:15 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
'Spending hours walking in Sanchin' sounds like a brainless exercise to me. Better ways to spend precious classroom time IMHO. Unless, you mean spread out over the years of training...?


Edited by harlan (06/28/11 02:16 PM)

Top
#432986 - 06/28/11 02:49 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Harlan

I guess I wasn't very clear about the Sanchin training. The hours were culmulative not all in a row.I should have reread my post. Certainly, walking in Sanchin hours on end is silly. My point was that to a beginner some of the training is tedious if they are expecting instant gratification. TMA is work and a slow process that many aren't willing to commit their time on.

keep training, Mark

Top
#432987 - 06/28/11 02:53 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
smile Thanks for taking the time to clarify. Being new to sharing kobudo/goju, I find that training methodologies and student expectations are now something I have to consider as well. shocked

Top
#432989 - 06/28/11 04:01 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:
My point was that to a beginner some of the training is tedious if they are expecting instant gratification.


I haven't figured out how to get past this one either. My teacher has given some helpful advice to simply switch it up regularly..make the "basics" as interactive as possible.

Again though, no matter what you do most people won't stick with the training...don't change what you do based on that.

Top
#432995 - 06/29/11 04:40 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
Since I started training in karate in 2004, we have had 3 new members (since 2009).
There have been about 4 more (prospects) who seemed interested. They only showed up once or twice and never returned. All in all, this isn't very much.
(Current numbers in our dojo: 3 greenbelts, 1 brownbelt, 2 blackbelts.)

We usually don't advertise our school. We've laid some folders at library's. (I'm actually thinking about hanging posters at some secondary schools*, since our age-range is 15 years and up.)
(The poster idea is: what <KARATE>, when, where, website for contactdetails. And maybe a little extra info, not too much.)

Most new students and prospect looked us up on the community-sportclub-website, which has a link to our schools website.
*(Seconday schools in NL have an age-range from app. 12 to 19.)
_________________________
Ives

Top
#432996 - 06/29/11 05:14 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: gojuman59
It appears that our society has made us in such a hurry that we won't take the time needed to gain understanding of the art aspect of some things.
Has anyone out there experienced anything similar to this at your club/school?


Yes.
Many aren't interested in karate as an art and a way of life. They put in their two nights a week and generally forget about it until they come back to class the next time around.
The thing is, if someone hopes to truly progress, then some other activities will have to be sacrificed in order to put in the time necessary to reap the benefits of training.
Most newbies have a sense of excitement when starting out, having made the jump from thinking and talking about it to actually signing up at a school and doing it, and enthusiam is high. Then that wears off and they realize that this thing takes perserverance, dedication, and sometimes the sacrifice of our comfort level.
Those things build character, and they spill over into our daily lives.
When a student makes the transition from viewing karate as a hobby to viewing it as a necessary part of their lives and experiencing the positive benefits that come as a result, both physically and mentally, then they are motivated to train.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

Top
#432997 - 06/29/11 06:50 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: choonbee]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Isn't it truth!! It's hard to explain to a newbie that this is a mindset. You know what I mean.It's hard to sell the journey and not the destination thing to the new person. I was at work the other day in the breakroom and got to talking with co-worker about martial arts. I thought there was a chance to get him into our class.I was wrong. He just couldn't get his head around the training in the moment thing. It was all about How fast can you get rank. When will you get your blackbelt? At what rank do you become a tough guy?
I thought I would blow his mind and tell him that if I never received a black belt again it would be ok. He just looked at me and said "what are you doing that stuff for if not to get your black belt? It just reminded me that training is training and I don't need the recognition to validate that I'm having a good time in the arts.
Actually, when I stopped chasing belts it made training so much nicer. It just took me a while to get over my self. I hate to bash,but the belt chasing came directly from my TKD days.oops.... did I say that.


keep training, Mark

Top
#433000 - 06/29/11 08:51 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Belt-chasing and student chasing...to my way of thinking they are kinda similar. I'm of the opinion that one should put out one's shingle, but not go about actively seeking students or promoting. Not a single person that has asked about training during a chance meeting/socially has ever shown. The student has to already be in the process of looking, of searching for something (often, not really knowing what for). They should be there because the internal motivation is already there.

Top
#433003 - 06/29/11 10:10 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Lol, all I can think of is "The Foot Fist Way" Movie which I watched the other day lol

New Students tend to bring a new Ora to the Dojo, I love having new students as it give the older students a chance to go back to basics again.
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#433004 - 06/29/11 11:05 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
I think that's a good approach on one level Narda..but on another I can say from experience that your club will probably average about two to three people. People are dense as )(*&, even when they are generally interested in doing something, alot of the time it takes someone else nudging them to actually get the ball rolling.

I think the ideal setup is a core group of "lifers", with a steady trickle of people just dipping their toes in. Eventually some of those people may become lifers..but it will be a very small percentage.

There's nothing wrong with trying to get new students, as long as it's understood that for the most part, people don't stick around minus those crazy 'lifers'.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (06/29/11 11:07 AM)

Top
#433008 - 06/29/11 12:22 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Zach_Zinn
I think that's a good approach on one level Narda..but on another I can say from experience that your club will probably average about two to three people. People are dense as )(*&, even when they are generally interested in doing something, alot of the time it takes someone else nudging them to actually get the ball rolling.

I think the ideal setup is a core group of "lifers", with a steady trickle of people just dipping their toes in. Eventually some of those people may become lifers..but it will be a very small percentage.

There's nothing wrong with trying to get new students, as long as it's understood that for the most part, people don't stick around minus those crazy 'lifers'.


Totally agree with this

Most people I know tend to leave around the 4th Kyu Range, just before brown as its a big step up for most.

Remember only 1:40,000 make it to Shodan(1st Dan) and only 1 in 5 of those Shodans get to Nidan etc
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#433009 - 06/29/11 03:50 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: Ives]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Ives, I can relate. Last Monday I showed up for class and suprise!! Class was Sensei, a Shodan and myself,5th Kyu.That was it.We approached class like any other, but it's hard to work on some things with that few of people.
That being said, I soaked as much up as I could.I wasn't gonna let the opportunity slip by me to train with two black belts at a time.I guess I was just lucky.
I tell you one thing,when class is that small it can be a motivational tool.Having the black belts watching my every move forced me to put out 100% effort. My point being that if they are taking their time to help me the least I can do is work as hard as I can.

Top
#433010 - 06/29/11 04:10 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Harlan

I feel that belt chasing is always wrong because it serves no purpose. It just swells the head. Now seeking new students isn't the same, in my mind.My motivation for seeing new white belts walk through the door is to have new people to meet and learn Goju. It's nice to have differant personalities in the dojo. Were not just trolling for any Tom,Dick, and Harry. We just would like to have some fresh bodies to walk through the door.

Mark

Top
#433011 - 06/29/11 04:21 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
You're a nicer person than myself! smile As an 'old beginner', I'm more selfish...and would rather NOT share precious hands-on time with my teachers on beginners. (It's all about meeeeee! wink LOL! ) Critical mass, IMHO, doesn't really appear until there are enough bodies at a certain skill level. Until then, you feel the drag of a mixed class.



Edited by harlan (06/29/11 04:25 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling

Top
#433012 - 06/29/11 05:09 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Now..... Harlan

I like to have the white belts around so that I don't feel like the most uncoordinated person in the dojo.
That's interesting about the mixed class statement.Since I started Goju ryu I guess I've always been the lower rank.(I liked that.)There wasn't any demands placed on me and it was cool. Now through promotion and attrition I'm the highest kyu in our club and I'm not too keen about that.
I think that receiving my black belt years ago in TKD kind of left me with some things I'm still working through. I imediatly was thrown into teaching classes. I was not prepared for that,or ready. It's for this reason that I would rather just be one of the lower ranks and train. I know..time to man up. I guess that when I remember how pathetic my technique was as a 2nd in TKD I want to be extra good "old beginner" in Goju ryu.The thought that I could be promoted as some kind of old guy curtesey just makes my blood boil.I want to earn any rank that comes my way.
Whew! that was too heavy.Sorry about that.Any way I've blathered on enough. Time to get ready for class.

keep training, mark

Top
#433015 - 06/29/11 10:06 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: harlan]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: harlan
The student has to already be in the process of looking, of searching for something (often, not really knowing what for).


Totally agree.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

Top
#433021 - 06/30/11 04:04 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
The good part is, getting much attention and almost private tuition.

The last couple of months, I've been teaching some of the classes, since my instructor was on a tight working schedule. Teaching is really eye-opening. Bit hard though, since it takes away on your own training during class (at least, that's what it tended to do on mine).
My motivation: we showed up, we want to train, so we train. Since I was the senior at those times, I felt that I had to give my attention to these students with less experience. Share my experience. (My instructor may sometimes ask me to fill in for him. So he must trust me, that I can cope with teaching I guess.)
(Two of the new ones recently passed their first greenbelt-exams, which gave me a good feeling about it.)

But still, we could do with some new students at our dojo.
_________________________
Ives

Top
#433035 - 07/01/11 09:57 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: gojuman59]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
I suspect much of this is due to the increased popularity of MMA. The overwhelming majority of young people who begin training do so to learn to fight. Traditional martial arts just don't seem "hard core" enough to them. Frankly, I think the audience for most traditional martial is quickly being narrowed to older people and toddlers.

Top
#433036 - 07/01/11 10:19 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: fileboy2002]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
You are definitely onto something in terms of new, young male students Fileboy.

However, from what i've seen the MMA places around here don't have any more longevity in longer term student retention than TMA dojos do...minus comepetitors..which have to be a small % of the students. They seem to do way more in terms of initial volume of students at a time for sure, but I don't see any more staying around than would in a TMA dojo. people in general are pretty lazy..it seems like the standard behavior of do a few classes, realize you won't be awesome immediately, then quit promptly crosses all disciplines and styles!

So I have to think that in the wash things will probably even out.

I think that generally the adult student looking for TMA is looking for something beyond just fighting usually.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (07/01/11 10:23 PM)

Top
#433039 - 07/02/11 09:37 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: Zach_Zinn]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: Zach_Zinn
I think that generally the adult student looking for TMA is looking for something beyond just fighting usually.


I agree.
Adults who join our school tend to stick around while, as Fileboy pointed out, the young males who show up tend to want to fight more than anything else, and usually end up at an MMA school.
They go there with big dreams, but after a while they realize that becoming a fighter like the ones they see on T.V. requires full-time dedication, and two or three MMA sessions a week won't cut it.
Originally, I was considering joing an MMA school when I started out. I didn't want to fight competitively, but I wanted to train like a fighter. (Short of getting my head bashed in inside the cage).
I spoke with the staff at the school, and they seemed intent on getting me into the cage, and didn't seem particularly interested in what I wanted to do, so I checked out traditional schools and joined one.
It turned out to be a good decision for me.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

Top
#433403 - 07/22/11 03:07 PM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: choonbee]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I have a small handful of students now and I'm pretty happy with that. Space is limited where I am, so it's all good.

The ones with the heart for it, stay, the other ones....well, not everyone has the heart for it.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#433428 - 07/24/11 09:10 AM Re: Getting new white belts. [Re: BrianS]
eagleyed Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 19
What saddens me is when the teacher puts student numbers ahead of student progression.

What i mean by this is that, as an assistant instructor my sensei likes to remind me that if i push my fellow students too hard, mainly in the initial fitness workout, then they might not come back the following week. I don't try to push anyone beyond their capabilities but I do try to encourage them to push themselves through at least some dis-comfort. The saying 'no pain, no gain' has truth in it, i believe.

All of my training to get to the point of where i am now, in my self-discipline, self-confidence and ability, came from being pushed hard. I don't bully. I motivate.

What i am trying to say is that i find it hard to think about teaching when I have to worry about hurting peoples feelings.

What pleases me is that although i hear the groans of the student putting themselves through a hard workout, when they pass me at the door on the way out and tell me that they enjoyed the class really. This is the satisfaction of teaching.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga