Billy Banks was good. And all it takes is a catchy name a a fad to start, and you'll rake in $$$$$

Zach,

I completely disagree with you on a number of points. First and foremost TKD is not just about high kicking and it certainly is not about kicking "way beyond the normal range of motion for any age, young or old", nor does it require one to be "hyperflexible", nor does it require large amounts of conditioning (beyond regular classes). Quite the contrary.

General Choi writes in his Encyclopedia of TKD that it is for everyone: the young, the old, males, females, children. That was part of his intent. And as I said, a GOOD school is perfectly capable of taking a 40 year old white belt and gradually training him, over the period of years to improve his flexibility and perform to the standards required by the art. I'm not speaking of competition level sport TKD here -- but the entirety of the art itself. Please keep in mind the differences in focus between WTF and ITF styles.

Also you claim that TKD requires ballistic kicking. You are incorrect in using this term. Ballistic kicking is a very specific type of bounce,return,bounce movement which is universally rejected by personal trainers, kiniesiologists and other exercise professionals as ineffective and dangerous. TKD kicking, just like ALL martial arts kicks and movements, are dynamic movements. This is the proper term.

Yes, it is agreed upon by the medical community that we lose about 20% of the elasticity of our tendons and ligaments as we age, over the course of 50 or 60 years. This is not significant enough to prevent someone from not doing a martial art. Muscular flexibility is significantly related to inactivity.

And yes, there are plenty of bad schools out there teaching exercises that are inappropriate and downright dangerous. That is not limited to TKD schools. A good school, in any art, will be recognizable by having a wide variety of ages performing at their level, according to their ages, rank and abilities.

I hate the notion that someone should avoid a martial art (any one) because they are told that they "can't" do it, because they are too old, or female, or too short, or not flexible enough.

So, to the original poster -- ANYONE can do TKD. You will definitely not be able to kick high at first, unless you have some natural flexibility (which is primarily in the joints and tendons). You will get better as you train. And if you are never able to do some very impressive, "showy" techniques -- that's okay. TKD is about FAR more than just a few jumpy spinny showy techniques.

I have to weigh in on this topic.As a former TKD practicioner I have some opinions on the ITF version of TKD.
I think that TKD is in fact a good group of exercises that is worthy of ones time and effort.General Choi's system can bring one who's untrained to a good level of fitness.If a middle aged person starts up TKD they must be very patient because their body will probably have a difficult time gaining the flexibility needed to be profitient in the art.
If one is motivated to learn there can be somes great times to be had providing there is a good, patient instructor to assist in this journey.
All that being said., I would probably steer a "older" beginning student towards traditional Karate. I just think that by middle age one would probably get more out of a system that places more emphasis on mid-level strikes and kicks.One can increase profitiency in traditional karate without having to perform head kicks and other difficult techniques.
I remember back in the day having to perform the 360 degree jump spinning back kick for one of my testings. I just don't see the reason to be middle aged and have to do some of those techniques. It certainly doesn't have any place in defending one's self.
I just think that by middle age that when taking martial arts one should gravitate to a system that teaches self-defense a little better than TKD.
It comes down to what expect from your training. We all are different. I just know that in my case I feel more confident in defending myself as a 5th kyu in Goju ryu than the 2nd dan I earned in TKD.
That being said, everybody gravitates to martial arts for their own reasons. This is why all can have our own opinions about the art to settle into. I guess it comes down to does it make you happy? or.. For my age is this style going to give me problems physically?
Sometimes we just have to try new things and see if our body can hold up.

keep training, Mark

People can do whatever they want, but when someone asks advice I assume they want actual information to weigh and think about, it's not my place to say anyone can't do anything.



I have two issues with high kicking:

One is, they are tactically impractical for most people from a self defense point of view, hopefully I don't need to explain why that is.If a place is spending an inordinate amount of time doing high kicks and training for them, IMO they spending time on something that is mostly foolhardly for real life usage..if that is not what they are there for, cool. But that is my opinion on the subject and it would be the same for ANY place claiming to teach self defense that spent alot of time on throwing high kicks.

The second (and more important from a general health and wellness perspective) is that TKD carries with it it's own set of risks..every art has these, and the fact is that the kicking taught in most TKD schools can definitely be risking for older hips. I know some can do it, but some can do anything and remain injury free, while others will end up with certain injuries.

I'm not gonna bother going into detail, i'm just gonna say that i've seen enough evidence of this to be 100% convinced. BTW The exact same thing would apply to a Karate school that taught this kind of high kicking, and certainly there are some Karate schools that do.

Someone in their older years trying to do head level sidekicks and the like is putting their hips and knees in jeopardy. CAN they do it? Yeah I suppose it's possible, they COULD do alot of things, that doesn't mean it's advisable, practical, or worth their time..unless for some reason they think it's vital to be able to throw high kicks.

I didn't mean to imply TKD is ONLY about that stuff, I know it isn't..but I think you have to admit that most TKD schools are, in fact, pretty focused on high kicking and flashy technique.


The fact that we are sitting here having this conversation says to me that you seem to think the specific stretching and working towards high kicking has enough merit that it's worth spending time on, and is a part of what you do. Cool...but I find myself coming at it from a different angle.

You realize there's about 20 different forms of Karate all very different from each other right?

There's way more than 20 different styles i'd say, it's probably in the hundreds or thousands, depending on what you count as a style. I've been doing Karate for quite a while..so yeah, i'm aware.

What is your point exactly..as it relates to what I said?

I was just throwing a number out there, I didn't feel like counting, the point is there's a lot of different styles of Karate. And that actually wasn't meant for you it was meant for the OP, my mistake.

Zach, any school which forces or pressures a student into trying to do a technique (such as a high kick, but it can be anything) that they are not capable of or comfortable doing is a bad school. Stay away from. And no student of any martial art, anywhere, should risk injury by trying to perform a technique they are not ready for. Good schools will prepare you for the techniques you are required to do and will never ask you to do a technique you can't do.

Head level kicks do not enter the traditional ITF (Chang-Hon) tuls until a very high level -- red belt. So there are years to work on developing the flexibility needed.

Once again, TKD is not just about high kicks.

Oh, and I just ran across a Canadian study which shows that injuries are twice as likely in karate as TKD. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but Tai Chi seems pretty safe.

(edited)

Oh, and another Canadian study showing the exact opposite: TKD twice as many injuries as karate. Tai Chi still seems pretty safe.

It's pretty safe until you start doing push hands, especially competitive push hands. Then the injury rate goes up on account of being slammed in the the ground, being shoved off an elevated platform and people smacking their heads/shoulders in to your face as they attempt to exploit gaps in your postural sturcture. Josh Waitzkin said that in a large competition in Taiwan, competitors had a range of serious injuries from getting their nose bust open to having bones in their hand/arm broken: