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#432869 - 06/18/11 08:44 AM David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko
Prizewriter Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
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Easily the biggeest heavyweight boxing match in a decade, David Haye vs Wlad Klitschko is only 2 weeks away. There does seem to be a little needle between them. They are both tremendous athletes, which is rare for a heavyweight fight in this day in age.

David Haye:



Wladimir Klitschko:



Any thoughts on this fight?
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#432887 - 06/20/11 05:47 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
Cord Offline
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By staying in Germany, and fighting carefully chosen past their prime, or journeyman oponents, the Klitchko's have killed heavyweight boxing as a spectacle for the span of the current millenium. They are paper champions.

That is not to say they are without skill, but they have strolled unchallenged for so long that they are effectively 'ring rusty', and in no way prepared, nor equipped, to deal with the mobility, speed, and power of Haye.

As with any contest, there are no certainties, but I have a no doubt that Haye will finish Wlad in under 5 rounds, providing he doesnt make sloppy mistakes. If he fights like he did against Valuev, then Klitchko will have absolutely no asnwer to him.
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#432888 - 06/20/11 07:27 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Cord]
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I agree with that assessment. Despite his poor opponents, Wlad is probably the hardest puncher David has faced. That said, I think David is too fast to get caught with much.

At the same time, David is possibly the hardest hitting opponent Wlad has ever had to face. Wlad's punch resistance isn't great, he's been knocked down something like 9 times in his pro career. In his defense though, he has shown heart and stamina to get back up on many occasions. Against Samuel Peter he was down 3 times but got back up each time and eventually won the bout(see above clip).

David has also shown he can travel well. He beat Mormeck in France and Valuev in Germany, so going to Germany again won't phase him.

Thing is though this may be Haye's last fight. He plans to retire by his 31st birthday in October. With Vitali Klitschko scheduled to fight in September, this might be Haye's last fight.
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#432889 - 06/20/11 08:27 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
Cord Offline
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I really dont think it will be his last fight. His post-retirement plans are centred around a hollywood career, and to do that, he will need to bring Heavyweight Boxing back to the USA, and win a few exciting big fights there, or there will be no draw or incentive for Hollywood to give him film roles.

I also remember him saying a few years ago, that he trained BJJ for flexibility along side his boxing, and would love to become the first heavyweight champion in boxing and MMA.

He has to beat Wlad first for any of his futures to happen though.
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#433040 - 07/02/11 10:26 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Cord]
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Putting my head on the chopping block here but Haye to win by KO. Going round to a mates house to watch it, should be awesome!
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#433042 - 07/02/11 06:16 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
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SPOILER AHEAD!!!!!








So much for Klichko being a paper champion.
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#433043 - 07/02/11 07:12 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Stormdragon]
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Just back from watching it. So much for my prediction! Klitschko was a class above. He made Haye look ordinary. No doubt he is a legit heavyweight. Many people have said Wlad wouldn't make it in any other heavyweight era. I don't think that's true especially after this performance. He showed excellent technique, poise, chin, heart and he completely nullified a top quality opponent. The only criticism I would have is that I think if he wanted to he could've KO'd Haye.

As for David he didn't look himself, but then Wlad's tactics may have played a large part in that. Not exactly a great fight but as Stormdragon said it's hard to question Wlad anymore.


Edited by Prizewriter (07/02/11 07:17 PM)
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#433045 - 07/02/11 09:44 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
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I still don't think Klitch would be a top heavy in any other heavyweight era. Tyson had way better head movement and power then Haye, Foreman hit much harder and was much bigger (while Klitch doesn't have the skills Ali had), Ali played Klitch's game better then Klitch, Frazier probably could have handled him as he also had better head movement then Haye and hit much harder, I think even Marciano or possibly Dempsey could have taken Klitch. I'm not sure about Holyfield but maybe. Haye is great for this era but a lot of past heavies used his or similar styles and did it better and Klitch couldn't finish him (precisely because Haye has unusually good head movement for today's heavies).


Edited by Stormdragon (07/02/11 09:46 PM)
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#433047 - 07/03/11 05:28 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Stormdragon]
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I think he would've given anyone a run for their money:

Tyson - Ok, I think a prime Tyson would beat Klitch, but then again IMO I don't know if ANYONE would've coped with Tyson in his prime (including Ali).

Frazier/Marciano - Too small. If a 6'3" 210lb David Haye was too small, a 6' 205lb Frazier would struggle, and a 5'11 187lb Marciano would've been destroyed.

Foreman - Possibly yes. I think Klitch is a better athelete though and has overall better stamina but Big George was terrifying in his prime.

Dempsey - No chance. Dempsey was a brawler. He had no finesse at all. For all Tyson's ferocity, it was based in a rock solid foundation in boxing principles. Gene Tunney, a 6' 190lb ex-marine (and one of the forefathers of modern boxing) was able to totally out-think and outbox Dempsey. A 6'5" 240lb master tactician like Wlad would've destroyed Dempsey. Dempsey thrived in an era of brawlers and tough guys. Once Tunney and others like him started introducing an art and science to boxing, it hearlded the end for guys like Dempsey.

Back to 2011, it looks like it could be the last fight for Haye. There doesn't seem to be anyone left for the Klitschko brothers to fight at the moment.
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"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#433048 - 07/03/11 11:02 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
trevek Offline
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Wlad just neutralised haye. The guy couldn't do anything. The tactics he used against valuev were fine for a limited boxer, but Wlad has a bit more to him.

Two questions though, 1) How come Haye kept falling down... was he praying for a miracle?

2) At times it looked like both boxers were fighting one handed. On at least on occasion Haye was wide open for a good left and it looked like Wlad could have given it no danger... but didn't. have i just been watching Rocky too much or is this a tactical lack on W's part?
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#433049 - 07/03/11 11:39 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: trevek]
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1) I think Haye was concerned before the fight that Wlad would put all of his weight on him in the clinch to sap his energy. They made a point of this to the ref. Haye kept falling in part because everytime Wlad lent on him he wanted to let the referee know what was happening. At times though he seemed to pre-empt the lean and fell before Wlad actually clinched.

2) Haye claims his toe was broken, which effected his balance and his ability to punch. Wlad has always been that way. The Klitschko brothers are avid chess players and this spills over in to their approach to boxing. They take their time and don't make any rash moves. Most of Wlad's world title fights have ended in the latter half of the fight. He breaks his opponent down over the fight and when his opponent has little left, he'll move in for the kill.

Haye still had a punchers chance right up until the bell as far as Wlad seems concerned, so he took no chances. As I said, I think if Wlad wanted to he could've KO'd Haye last night. It's not the way he fights though.
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#433050 - 07/03/11 01:35 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
Matakiant Offline
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Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 114
Yeah about that toe.. I sort of don't believe Haye's stories anymore... He is obviously a good boxer but as a personality I am very glad he lost - I know the mud slinging with Klichko was mostly a publicity stunt but Haye has demonstrated time and time again that he isn't a very ''likeable'' person.

Just my opinion of course.

In this day and age Wlad is a better boxer - not a very entertaining one but he is the man when it comes to the results...

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#433052 - 07/03/11 04:18 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Matakiant]
trevek Offline
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If haye had this toe problem, how come he was dancing around? maybe he should have asked Dr K to have a look at it.
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#433058 - 07/03/11 10:09 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: trevek]
Christy Offline
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Go back to 4chan, loser.


Edited by Zombie Zero (07/05/11 12:02 PM)
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#433063 - 07/04/11 10:31 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Christy]
MattJ Offline
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This has to be the most random post ever. What does Obama have to do with this boxing match? And you might want to reconsider how dumb you think Cord is when you mis-spelled know and ugly.
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#433064 - 07/04/11 12:33 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Christy]
trevek Offline
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Originally Posted By: Christy
Mecca is to East, PUNK !!!! David Haye.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Surely Mecca's direction depends where you are in the world. I mean, if you're in north Europe, it's south.
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#433067 - 07/04/11 02:19 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: trevek]
Christy Offline
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Loc: The D
trevek- No, polak, from the where David Lloyd is in the U.K., Mecca is EAST. East by southeast to be exact, but still east.

MattJ- How's that hope & change workin' out for ya? Get stomped by a black flashmob yet? Pipsqueak.

Cord- Where are you?! I thought you guaranteed that David Haye would beat either Klitschko? I thought you said he would knock out Wladimir in 5 rounds? I thought you said he was the most explosive fighter since Tyson? $hit, David Haye pu$$ied out of fights with both Klitschko's on 3 different occasions, ran his big fat mouth about what he would do to them, and then when the time came, he ran like a girl and flopped like a fish all night... Not that Klitschko fought a great fight (he's 35 and looked every bit of it) but I still wish he had knocked that phony little bum out, if only to imagine the look on your goofy, bald-headed face, David Lloyd. Ah well... HAPPY 4TH OF JULY !!!!!
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#433069 - 07/04/11 03:02 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Christy]
trevek Offline
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Originally Posted By: Christy
trevek- No, polak, from the where David Lloyd is in the U.K., Mecca is EAST. East by southeast to be exact, but still east.


Dzieki za informacji ale nie jestem polakiem.

Ah, didn't realise you were being location specific. Who's david Lloyd?


Edited by trevek (07/04/11 03:06 PM)
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See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

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#433070 - 07/04/11 03:34 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: trevek]
Christy Offline
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Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 61
Loc: The D
Sorry, although I'm half-Polish (my mother) I can't speak the language. I'm an ignorant, boorish, racist, American and can only speak bastardized English:)

David Lloyd is Cord. The know-it-all who was soooo sure that Haye would land that goofy, amateurish, looping right and Klitschko would just fall over. The guy who, in spite of having not one professional fight himself, had the nerve to call the Klitschko's "paper champions".
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#433073 - 07/04/11 05:23 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Christy]
trevek Offline
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Ah, basically I said "thanks for the info but I'm not Polish" (although it was probably full of mistakes).
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Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#433092 - 07/05/11 12:03 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: trevek]
Zombie Zero Offline
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Christy won't be polluting the forums anymore.
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#433107 - 07/06/11 05:09 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
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Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
I think he would've given anyone a run for their money:

Tyson - Ok, I think a prime Tyson would beat Klitch, but then again IMO I don't know if ANYONE would've coped with Tyson in his prime (including Ali).

Frazier/Marciano - Too small. If a 6'3" 210lb David Haye was too small, a 6' 205lb Frazier would struggle, and a 5'11 187lb Marciano would've been destroyed.

Foreman - Possibly yes. I think Klitch is a better athelete though and has overall better stamina but Big George was terrifying in his prime.

Dempsey - No chance. Dempsey was a brawler. He had no finesse at all. For all Tyson's ferocity, it was based in a rock solid foundation in boxing principles. Gene Tunney, a 6' 190lb ex-marine (and one of the forefathers of modern boxing) was able to totally out-think and outbox Dempsey. A 6'5" 240lb master tactician like Wlad would've destroyed Dempsey. Dempsey thrived in an era of brawlers and tough guys. Once Tunney and others like him started introducing an art and science to boxing, it hearlded the end for guys like Dempsey.

Back to 2011, it looks like it could be the last fight for Haye. There doesn't seem to be anyone left for the Klitschko brothers to fight at the moment.


Jack Dempsey easily demolished 250 lbs. 6'6" Jess Willar hardly breaking a sweat. The only heavyweight I've ever see with eaqually skillfull head movement was Tyson and MAYBE Frazier. True he lost twice to a very artful boxer in Gene Tunney but they were decision losses and Gene Tunney was no less skilled, though much small then Klitch I'll grant you that. As for Marciano and Frazier, well Marciano hit incredibly hard for his size, had a chin of stone and knew how to stifle tall, logn armed and skillful boxers. Frazier, meh Klitch might be a tough fight for even a prime Frazier, it's hard to say. Foreman would have hospitalised Klitch if he was in his prime, Ali was much better then Klitch at the same kind of style. Foreman was bigger, had a way better record and Klitch lost to much lesser opponents. And I think you're mistaking Dempsey's unique style as bad boxing technique when it was just a different approach. He beat some real good boxers, you win some you lose some. He was far from just a brawler I think few boxing historians woudl agree that he had no technique, he was a master of infighting and bobbing and weaving.
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#433108 - 07/06/11 05:13 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Stormdragon]
Stormdragon Offline
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I think Klitch in the 70's and 80's would be a top 10 or top 5 probably, but I don't think he ever would have been champion. The consensus is that today's heavies aren't of the same quality as the ones of that era. Compared to Tyson, Frazier, and Dempsey Hay's head movement isn't that great, his slipping is ok but still not on the same level. And he doesn't hit as hard. Frazier moved better and hit harder then Haye and beat Ali once at least and Ali was WAY more skilled then Klitch. Foreman was just a monster same as Tyson I'm not sure anyone could beat one of them in their prime except each other. Marciano and Dempsey would be the least likely to win but still would have a chance, both could potentially hurt Klitch real bad, especially Marciano and Marciano was real tough to hit clealy as well.


Edited by Stormdragon (07/06/11 05:24 AM)
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#433109 - 07/06/11 06:16 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Stormdragon]
Prizewriter Offline
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I think Dempsey was one dimensional, put it that way. Tunney beat him with sound strategy and superior boxing skills. Klitch (with Manny Steward) would figure out how to handle someone like Dempsey without too much trouble. Agree though that Ali, Foreman and Tyson would likely beat Klitch. The others we will agree to disagree on.
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#433120 - 07/06/11 08:23 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
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Meh alright. Tunney was way ahead of his time. You have to admit though that a TKO over Joe Louis, arguably one of the most skilled boxers of all time, says a lot about Marciano and his ability to handle really technical fighters.
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#433131 - 07/07/11 09:37 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Stormdragon]
Prizewriter Offline
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Not trying to take anything away from Rocky, but I feel it's only fair to point out that Joe Louise was 37 years old at that point and this ended up being his last professional boxing match. I wouldn't say he fought Joe at his best though. He did beat him all the same. Fair enough Kiltch is 35, but he hasn't been in many wars and is pretty fresh. Joe Louis on the other hand was fighting every 2 months, even when he was the champ. I think Rocky got him at the right time. Again though, we'll agree to disagree.
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#433160 - 07/09/11 05:19 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
trevek Offline
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good point, Prizewriter. These days there's so much money etc that boxers seem to fight so rarely when compared with those in the past. Shame, I want my champions to show themselves a bit more.
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#433161 - 07/09/11 05:38 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: trevek]
Prizewriter Offline
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Believe it or not I actually don't mind modern boxers fighting less. Ok, fighting once a year isn't great, but if they only fight 2-3 times a year at championship level, that's fine by me. Two reasons why:

1) Imagine having to pay out PPV to watch your favourite boxer 6 or 7 times a year!

2) More importantly is the safety factor. Less and less I notice fighters with symptoms of Dementia Pugilistica when they retire, which is a good thing. Fighters from back in the day often exhibited signs of Dementia Pugilistica when they quit. Boxing is still a dangerous sport, but anything that can be done to reduce the risk in boxing is a good thing. If it means I only get to see my favourite boxer 2/3 times a year, so be it.
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"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#433214 - 07/11/11 05:22 PM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Prizewriter]
trevek Offline
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Safety reasons apart (and I agree with you totally), I'd say the reason they only have to fight once a year is because of things like PPV.

Incidentally, have you seen Wladimir's silent film? Superb!
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#433310 - 07/17/11 06:10 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: trevek]
Cord Offline
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Wow, I missed all this - been on holiday. Why is Christy so upset? Did I date her in my youth? If I did, she was a forgettable lay. Also, I am not a demon, so knowing my true name doesnt give anyone power over me. Just thought i would clarify that for any other haters out there wink

Anyway, belatedly, regarding the fight, I was utterly dismayed by Haye, his pre-fight shenanigans, his in-fight performance, and his post-fight excuse making.

A broken little toe does not, in any way, explain his poor performance. Big toe? yes, little toe, no way. Besides which, knowing weeks in advance of the injury, and not having an orthotic insert made to take pressure off the toe, considering the resources available to him, is just ridiculous.

His problem was believing his own smack talk. He underestimated Wlad, and went in with a headhunting, one-shot approach, presuming that he would be quicker, and that Wlad would not have the reactions to deal with it.

It became evident within 90 seconds that this was not going to work, and yet Haye and his corner did not have the brains to change tactics.

Haye only threw 5 jabs in the whole fight, and all 5 landed on target. If he had spent more time boxing, and less time goading and trying to play the ref. for points, he would have made a fight of it, sore foot or not.

Klitchko on the other hand, impressed me greatly. Tight orthodox boxing, nice, if linear, footwork, and a good eye to read Haye's weakpoints from the first bell. I still think he has wasted his career protecting his belt by refusing to fight in the US, and by hand-picking lesser caliber oponents, and I still think he is a very beatable boxer, but he clearly can raise his game when the occassion calls for it.

If there is to be a rematch (and Wlad owes Haye no favours in this respect), then Haye needs to concentrate on the fight, not all the BS around it, and he needs to actually box- something he has proven more than capable of in the past, but inexplicably chose not to do when it mattered most.

He has the tools to beat Klitchko, he just didnt use them on the night, due to hubris and blinkered vision.
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#433311 - 07/17/11 06:32 AM Re: David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko [Re: Cord]
Cord Offline
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Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I just checked Christy's post history - turns out its a racist dude me, Matt and others destroyed in general talk all the way back in '09!!! shocked grin

That guy has been sat in Detroit for 2 years finding out who I am, and waiting to flame me out, and the posts he made in this thread are the fruits of his labour!!!???

That may be the saddest thing I have ever seen frown
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