So, first, please excuse the screen name; I wasn't pre-thinking my registration process. I am neither a novel nor a girl. (I've been unable to find the magic button to make a better name of myself. I'll work on it.) I am, however a novelist -- and a woman -- who finds herself drawn to plots that require a good deal of females on the offense.

I'm looking for feedback from FightingArts members who have thought about how women fight differently than men.

I've been frustrated with both my real-world and my on-line writer critique groups, both of which are dominated by men who think it's silly for women to jump into physical dustups. (Even the few women in my groups are all, "I'd never!"

My husband, who is a black belt in something-or-another and now does some sword thingy that requires weird pants, recommend I ditch the writer types and come to you all for ideas. He's been a poster here off and on over the years.

There is plenty of stuff about how women AS VICTIMS can combat attack. But little, I've found (outside of movie/comic-strip stuff) about women, who are proactive, who insert themselves into a fracas, work their gender to advantage in real-world situations.

I'd love to hear from folks who have thought about this.

I'm not sure what this means, people who insert themselves into violent situations proactively in the real world are either 1) professionals whose job it is to do so, or 2)usually making a really stupid mistake.

You have three basic categories to go with:

Women full contact fighters - easy, find some interviews.

Women Martial artists and martial arts teachers - harder to find, but they are definitely out there.

Women who have survived violent attacks, sounds like you're not interested in that, but that is where you will find the most 'authentic' stories of women prevailing I would imagine.



Hmm, if you want to insert a does of reality into your fiction, i've heard good things about Violence: A writers guide by Rory Miller.



You have to define what you mean exactly, violence isn't just one thing, it's a bunch of stuff.

Are you looking for stories of women jumping in to bar fights, protecting their children, helping their boyfriends beat someone up?

Zach, I hear you.

And your first point is pretty much what I've gotten from the paunchy, writer types.

I'm not interested in professionals or stupid people; I'm interested in the folks in between. And where random heroics go down.

Perhaps it's always unwise for either a man or a woman to go on the offensive or rise to the defense of a stranger. Yet that's what heroes are made of.

I'm interested in the unique ways women accomplish such heroics. How women shape the battlefield differently. I'm pretty sure I don't have to be a professional hero or stupid to fight for and rescue someone even if I'm 5'7 and 135 and left my gun in the car.

I'm interested in how that works.

Im still not sure what you are looking for, you made a comment about not wanting to hear about "victim" stories, but if you are looking for stories about women physically prevailing, that is overwhelmingly where you find that kind of thing..victim stories.

If you are talking purely physical combat women are at a huge disadvantage to men both in terms of physical attributes and social conditioning...that shapes the very heart of what you are talking about.

I don't mean any offense here, but it sounds like you are trying to look at reality to find material for fiction, I think if you continue your search, you will just end up with a different idea of reality.

Again my best recommendation to you is to check out the Rory Miller book if you are really trying to put some kind of realistic spin on a fantasy heroine.

http://www.amazon.com/Violence-A-Writers-Guide-ebook/dp/B004EYTBNA





It seems like you are starting from a sort of romanticized viewpoint, and trying to fill in the gaps with stories from reality, my guess is reality will usually disappoint in comparison!

Just in case though, here is a link I got from someone else:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5071328/Karate-student-floors-attackers

There are stories (a few on here) about women prevailing against violent attacks, but usually they have been the victim of an attack, rather than intervening in an incident.

There are also stories of folks on here who have gotten involved in disuptes between parties to try and help them out. One case in particular springs to mind: a man who posted on here tried to intervene when a man was physically threatening a woman (who turned out to be his girlfriend).

The guy who intervened was berated by both the attacker AND the attackers girlfriend.

No one in particular seemed to regard this guy as a hero. The consenus from the thread was that discretion is the better part of valour i.e. getting physically involved can and often does make things worse.

Some ideas from that thread were it may have been better to phone the police and warn the attacker that the police were on there way.

I suppose it depends on the situation. Certainly Law Enforcement Officers I've heard interviewed always discourage "have a go heroes".

Regarding specifics to women I'm not sure, but I'll have a look to see what I can find.

There is another class of women "who insert themselves into a fracas, work their gender to advantage in real-world situations." You'll find them in the lists of violent criminals, psychopaths etc. Here's one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Wuornos

Hope your post actually reminded of a rather unsavoury story I read in 2009 about Ashley Wolfe, wife of Defendo chief Bill Wolfe:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...nner-dance.html

Also note in the above article how the soliders wife tried to get involved.

Presuming you are dealing with fiction, or searching for inspiration for fiction, then film offers greater example's of women taking direct violent action.

Famke Jansen as the assassin in Goldeneye- a sort of femme fatale who uses sex to engineer her targets into vulnerable situsations, then chokes them to death with her thighs!! (I could think of worse ways to go )

The women of the Matrix movies, using speed and flexibility over brute strength.

G.I. Jane, where Demi Moore faces the challenges of elite military training designed for men.

Aliens, where Sigourney Weaver uses her knowledge and lack of arrogance, as well as her lateral thinking to do what the marines cannot.

In real life, you would do well to look at the remarkable history of the female snipers of the russian army in WWII, and why the female mind proved so adept at the skills needed to excell as a sniper.

When it comes to 'street' violence, then there isnt an awful lot of difference in mindset between male and female physical agression. Web sites like 'Comegetyousome.com' have loads of footage of women fighting, both spontaneous and pre-arranged, and it just looks like what guys do, but with more hairpulling.

A few years ago, my wife was out with friends, when 2 guys 'jumped' a male friend of hers. She grabbed a pool-ball and used it to hammer one of the attackers repeatedly on the back of his head and then face and knocked him out. You may want to see the use of a weapon of opportunity as a factor in evening the odds between the sexes, but at the end of the day, the mechanics of beating the sh1t out of someone are not gender specific.

What a treat to have so many great responses.

I've read the articles. Thanks all.

Zach, the book looks great. I'll order it as soon as I can figure out how to do so without a Kindle.

Cord, very helpful how you linked the special talents with each of the female film characters. Great story about your wife. So I've got a list going now -- speed, flexibility, knowledge, humility, access to pool balls.

So I was too narrow in how I phrased my original post. I don't just mean how women may physically fight differently than men, but how women may approach the whole gamut of a confrontation differently.

For example, I've intervened in domestic altercations five times in my life. Not because I meant to but just because something happened right in front of me and...well...I was just there.

I have a scene in my current work in progress that I based loosely on the last time I intervened. There was nothing spectacular or action-hero about either the real situation or the fictional scene. But when my critique group went over the scene, both the male and female members found it unbelievable. When I explained the real situation it was based on, they thought I was crazy.

I was frankly surprised by their reaction. So I ran it by an online critique group and got much the same thing. When I talked to my husband about these reactions, he suggested that a couple of things could be going on. One, folks may not be assessing risk very well. Two, folks may not understand how a woman can use her sex to advantage in a confrontation or intervention. Three, he suggested I come here and discuss it with you all.

I have a couple more scenes coming up in which women physically intervene in confrontations. I'm trying to figure out why my perception of risk is apparently so much different than my writer crowd's so I can make these scenes work.

Drat, perhaps I should just tell the story that started all this. I'm swimming in a motel pool in the middle of the night. No one else around. Didn't bring a phone to the pool. Every time I'd come up for air, I'd hear a man and woman fighting in the parking lot. Just yelling at each other. She poked at him a couple times and he didn't poke back. That sort of thing. I just swam, but paid attention. One time I came up just in time to see him bash her head with his truck door. She went down I didn't think about it, I just jumped over the pool fence (short) and went running across the parking. I think I was yelling something as I came, swimsuit, dripping wet. When I got close, he was standing over her, staring at me, and telling her to get in the truck. She was just lying on the pavement. I stopped a good distance away and told him to back off. I kept saying it. He started arguing, saying it was her fault and blah, blah. I kept saying something like, "I know. I saw. I'm taking care of her now. All you can do is get in your truck." He did. I pulled her up. He left. I had her call a friend to pick her up.

So not that dramatic. I don't think I was crazy. It's not like I went hunting for some altercation to interrupt. It just happened in front of me and no one else was around to do anything. Of course, no matter what I did, it could have gone bad. But I took advantage of the weirdness of a wet woman running across a parking lot in the middle of the night. I was loud. I stopped well before I got to him. I didn't engage his arguments, but agreed with him and told him what he had to do.

So these things were just instinctual. I'd like to hear from folks who have thought these sorts of things through. Does that make sense?

It was a courageous thing to do running, wet and yelling to that dust-up by the pool. This was a case of you doing the brave thing when that women needed someone bad.
The guy was probably a bully who got his kicks by intimidation. By you coming along after his cowardly behavior it probably scared him. He knew that his anger dug himself a big hole and he better get away from the scene of the crime. It matters not who started the argument, The minute he bashed her head he was at fault.
It appears that you used some psychology on the pathetic dude. By agreeing with him you gave him an out and he took it.
In my Goju class we have some principles that we take from Aikido. One of them is project your ki. This can be done in many ways. The simplest being your voice. By speaking in a authoritative tone it can be some what disarming to a attacker. Don't act like a victim and you won't be a victim.

Mark