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#432686 - 06/06/11 05:58 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: Prizewriter]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
No worries. Sorry if my tone was alarmist, I thought you were considering a change without reading in to it.


No problem, my friend.
I appreciate the advice.
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#432687 - 06/06/11 06:07 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: Cord]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: Cord
The more food sources you deprive the body of, the more difficult it becomes to meet the wide ranging nutritional needs of your body, so the more hardline your vegetarianism, the more nutritionaly aware you need to be.


Makes sense.
Sounds like a lot of attention to detail is necessary to do it right.
I wonder if many vegetarians take amino acid supplements and/or protein shakes. That would seem like an easy way to get your protein while avoiding meat by-products and fats.
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#432709 - 06/10/11 05:04 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: choonbee]
Shusha Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 37
Vegetarian or not, its a mistake to equate skinny with weak.

Just as there is a difference between a 300lb person with 10% body fat and a 300lb person with 40% body fat -- there are also 110lb lean, muscular, strong individuals.

(I'm lacto-, ovo- vegetarian and have been all my life)

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#432716 - 06/11/11 09:31 AM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: Shusha]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I see the point you are trying to make, but strength can be a fairly subjective thing.

For example, a 110lb Yoga practioner who can support their body weight using only there hands (i.e. a handstand) for 5 minutes might think that is strength

A 300lb powerlifter might think being able to deadlift 500lbs is a feat of strength.

One might not be able to do the other.

Also, the laws of physics take over at some point, and this becomes particularly apparent in certain arenas.

Using your example, the 300lb person with 40% bodyfat goes up against your 110lb lean, muscular person in a Judo match. Even if the 110lb person has a higher skill level in Judo, they are going to struggle to do much with a 300lb person (of any bodyweight composition) in a Judo match. Except hope they have a heart attack.
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#432733 - 06/11/11 08:00 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: Prizewriter]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
Why? What's the point?

I really do not think there is any point to being vegan, vegeterian or anything alike unless you have a medical reason for such a diet.

I believe in eating and doing what feels right. If you get a craving for some kind of meat, fish, dairy product, fruit etc go and get it your body is telling you what you need. If you grew up eating healthy - by healthy I mean eating REAL FOODS and a wide variety you can't go wrong when listening to your body.

I don't think it's a wise idea to cut out any food group from your diet. And at least around here most vegeterians, vegans are pompous [censored] who think their saving the planet - no your not that cow is still going through the slaughter house wether you eat it or not, jackass - I do imagine it is hard to eat healthy in America comparing the country where I live at and Finland where I go to work the difference is huge.

Here modern society hasn't had it's ill effects so heavily on society yet - most food in stores is quite natural and wholesome. While in neighbouring Finland you have for example in stores 20 types of breads, 200 types of sweets and lots and lots of packaged meals pretty much packaged everything and most people buy it eat it and don't even know how to cook anymore no wonder they have an obesity problem.

In my little former Soviet Union country at least 90% of people older than 25 can cook for themselves. But it's starting to root in here as well young men, women who don't know how to cook for themselves so they buy packaged meals order take aways and so on.

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#432736 - 06/11/11 08:59 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: Matakiant]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: Matakiant
Why? What's the point?

I really do not think there is any point to being vegan, vegeterian or anything alike unless you have a medical reason for such a diet.


Good for you, but it sounds like you don't have a whole lot of anything other than your opinion to back it up.

Quote:

I believe in eating and doing what feels right. If you get a craving for some kind of meat, fish, dairy product, fruit etc go and get it your body is telling you what you need. If you grew up eating healthy - by healthy I mean eating REAL FOODS and a wide variety you can't go wrong when listening to your body.


What if someone's body "tells" them not to eat meat? When i went vegetarian it precisely for this reason, for some reason when I ate meat, especially red meat I felt slow and sick.

Aside from that "doing what feels right" isn't a particularly relevant philosophy anyway, if we just went by that conversations like this would be pointless...maybe it feels right to me to drink myself into a stupor and eat nothing but ice cream, some people think it feels right to shoot up heroin.

Quote:

I don't think it's a wise idea to cut out any food group from your diet. And at least around here most vegeterians, vegans are pompous [censored] who think their saving the planet


That's nice, but it sounds like you don't actually know much about nutrition, and are just going again..on your opinions of different "types" of people..totally useless information from a viewpoint of what being a vegetarian actually is. If all the vegetarians you've met are like that you've had some pretty limited life experiences.


Quote:


Here modern society hasn't had it's ill effects so heavily on society yet - most food in stores is quite natural and wholesome. While in neighbouring Finland you have for example in stores 20 types of breads, 200 types of sweets and lots and lots of packaged meals pretty much packaged everything and most people buy it eat it and don't even know how to cook anymore no wonder they have an obesity problem



Sure, processed foods are a part of the problem, again this really has nothing to do with whether or not being a vegetarian is healthy..BTW it's not really in dispute that one CAN be healthy as a vegetarian, nor has it been for some time. The only real issue is protein, which with ovo-lacto vegetarians is barely an issue at all.

Quote:

In my little former Soviet Union country at least 90% of people older than 25 can cook for themselves. But it's starting to root in here as well young men, women who don't know how to cook for themselves so they buy packaged meals order take aways and so on.



Again a good point, but you've managed to make zero points about why you think being vegetarian is bad idea.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (06/11/11 09:04 PM)

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#432829 - 06/16/11 09:38 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
Yep exactly nothing but my own opinion - just like yours.

I didn't claim to be proving in my post anything about vegetarianism being unhealthy I just don't agree with it - unless it is for truly medical reasons and believe it or not I know quite a lot about nutrition.

If I had my way I would add a lot more fresh greens and such to my diet but I just can't afford it, the climate here makes almost all vegetables, green leaves, fruits etc quite expensive compared to a grains, fish, meat heavy diet.

In many ways a vegeterian diet can be great for you dependant where you live and what kind of ''market'' your in - where I live being a vegeterian is a very expensive thing to do.

In somewhere like the US I suppose there isn't much of a difference budget wise?

A lot of vitamins, minerals, macros and so on are much easier to get from a good vegetarian diet than a bad lazy bachelors diet involving many packaged meals, take aways or just 1 sided sources of nutrients i.e guy only being able to cook 5 dishes which mostly are comprised of empty carbs or not full value proteins.

I realize ''doing what feels right'' is kind of a bad suggestion for most people but you could say I'm a hippy with good discipline - I've gotten my knowledge on nutrition well beyond that of average Joe or house wife and coupled that with ''what feels right'' & discipline it works out quite well.

Though I admit if I could I would like to eat on a more strict diet but for the last 10 years all my grocery shopping has very heavily depended on money - buy what is cheap and available or you can't pay the rent.

As I said before thankfully, here, eating junk is a lot more expensive than cooking for yourself, even if you whip up some good dishes from time to time.

You not liking meat is completely fine what I don't agree with at all is excluding all fish & animal products from your diet I believe that was called being a vegan? And as I said in my previous post in a less eloquent way I don't find it sensible to become a vegetarian because of philosophical/political views.

What my personal issue is that I just don't see the point in the hassle of being a vegetarian unless you have a good reason and for me there is really only one - medical reasons and if you felt slow & sick from eating meat then I consider that a medical reason.

Another thing that tickles my dislikes about vegetarianism or paranoias in this case (lol) is that often vegetarians turn to supplements and I do not like supplements very much. It's a very complicated subject science wise but for me simply put I prefer to avoid such things unless necessary.

And to finish with a little question - if the world has fish, meat, fruits, vegetables etc why not eat all of them?


Edited by Matakiant (06/16/11 09:41 PM)

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#432874 - 06/19/11 12:04 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: Matakiant]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Many people go vegan because they're horrified by the cruel treatment of the animals that we eat by those who process and sell the meat, and they refuse to support such an industry.
Also, many are concerned about eating meat laced with the antibiotics and growth drugs given to those animals.
I guess people differ in their views as to what a good reason to go vegan would be, and it's an individual, personal decision.
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#432880 - 06/19/11 11:03 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: choonbee]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
A well-planned vegetarian diet is probably one of the healthier things you could do for yourself. Just don't be overzealous about. Think of pure vegetarianism as an ideal to strive for, not as a strict do-or-die requirement.

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#432896 - 06/20/11 10:13 PM Re: Vegetarian? [Re: fileboy2002]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
That's good advice, fileboy.
Although I've been able to drop a lot of weight by eating sensibly (meat included) and regular training, I think that a vegetarian diet would be good for many people if it were well planned.
Personally, if I were to do it, I don't think that I'd go vegan. I'd probably stick with fish and eggs, and maybe some occasional chicken.
Not a very "vegetarian" diet by most standards, but still decent.
At this point, though, I still enjoy a nice steak every now and again.
For some reason, it seems right.


Edited by choonbee (06/20/11 10:18 PM)
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