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#432720 - 06/11/11 01:42 PM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: Razma]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
We do Bogu-kumite, that means more or less: You are going to be hit. Hit hard.
If your techniques are not up to par, you are going to injure someone. (Low level participants tend to be the worst opponents injury wise.)
But befor you start blocking/parrying, you have to know how to attack.
'Give before you take.' (Or something like that smile )
Knowing how to attack, will tell you what to defend for.
_________________________
Ives

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#432723 - 06/11/11 04:11 PM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: gojuman59]
Razma Offline
Member

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 36
Originally Posted By: gojuman59
That is correct Martialman. In our class the sparring we do is only to work on techniques for self-defense. It didn't take to long to find out that my tournament teqhniques from the past weren't gonna help in this type of sparring.


keep training, Mark


I see a lot of tournament videos where the techniques are fast but don't have anything behind them. Why do people train like this? It may win trophies but won't help in an actual confrontation.

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#432724 - 06/11/11 05:07 PM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: Razma]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
I guess because some people are interested in winning trophies and tournament competition.
Personally I couldn't care less about tournaments, but if the participants enjoy them, then great.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

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#432728 - 06/11/11 07:23 PM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: choonbee]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
Because they like to win trophies - there is nothing bad in that by itself

What is bad when these people who ONLY train that type of martial arts claim to be able to do and teach things they never really learn i.e self defense.

Competition is not a bad thing but I do not like or approve of big competitions and tourneys I believe there is enough competition in the dojo where you train between your fellow practitioners.

When tournaments become focus the martial part of any art gets shadowed and much often completely lost as people only practice for tournaments and alike of course if the competitions are full contact things are very much different but semi-contact, light contact or even no contact is clearly dominating most hugely popular martial arts these days.

If what your looking for is a strong and powerful technique then be prepared to work for it, it's a lot easier to become a good competitive Karateka than an actual martial artist and a Karateka.

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#432752 - 06/12/11 08:08 AM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: Matakiant]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: Matakiant
What is bad when these people who ONLY train that type of martial arts claim to be able to do and teach things they never really learn i.e self defense.


Agreed.
Not that there aren't tournament people around who can't defend themselves. I'm sure there are plenty who can, but being good at tournaments doesn't automatically mean that you are good at self-defense.
People can claim anything they want. It's just talk.
The reality check comes when they are put into a situation where they have to defend themselves for real. Then they learn the truth about what they can do, good or bad.
People who go around claiming to be able to do this or that have a problem with self-esteem. Besides ourselves, and possibly our instructors, nobody really cares about what we can do as martial artists, and if someone enjoys bragging about what they can do, then their attitude isn't right in the first place.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

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#432781 - 06/13/11 09:19 AM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: choonbee]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

We're going back to "levels of contact" discussion.........

Again!!!!

I being a Knockdown Karateka will only say that a Blackbelt SHOULD be sparring Full Contact "Knock Down" with other Blackbelts whereas Lower grades should be between NON-Contact (Whitebelt) and FULL Contact(third Brown)

I forgot about the "Push hands" in Tai Chi but its not the same as the Sparring I'm used to. The closest Chinese Art to have Sparring Clsoe to my type of Sparring is "San Shou" or "San Da". "Cung Le" is a famous practitioner of the style

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanshou

Regards Sparring and Defence, its just confidence and Shadow Sparring builds confidence and also the One Step gives meaning to some of the defences etc in Karate

OSU
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#432783 - 06/13/11 10:32 AM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: Dobbersky]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
I have boatloads of respect for your style of karate. Correct me if I'm wrong here but are you saying that at black belt level all sparring should be done at full contact only? Is there nothing to be learned by the give and take between opponents at a lower level of contact?
I realize that knockdown Karate is the real deal. I'm not a wimp here(just getting old.)

keep training, Mark

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#432827 - 06/16/11 11:29 AM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: gojuman59]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: gojuman59
I have boatloads of respect for your style of karate. Correct me if I'm wrong here but are you saying that at black belt level all sparring should be done at full contact only? Is there nothing to be learned by the give and take between opponents at a lower level of contact?
I realize that knockdown Karate is the real deal. I'm not a wimp here(just getting old.)

keep training, Mark


Mark-san, I have huge respect for Goju Ryu too, I have a couple of Goju Yudansha that come and "play" quite regularily

For Black belts, I would say in the Dojo, its Full Contact with Common Sense. You're not out to damage and destroy your training partner, just not tippy tappy bouncy bouncy one strike and scream, it MUST be continuous and no points just knock-down rules!
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#432828 - 06/16/11 07:29 PM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: Dobbersky]
gojuman59 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 224
Loc: Missouri
Continuous sparring is definitly the way to go. Tag ...you're it... doesn't cut it.
I was checking out one of your old posts (432374) and took in your kata from Ashahara. Most impressive.Your kata looks like a real fight is happening. Not too many kata I've seen are like that. You know what I mean. Most look like old school. Which is cool with me. The Ashahara kata looks like someone just opened a huge can of whup--s. They flow different than I'm used to seeing. Different,but cool.
I wish I wasn't so ancient and could get in there and bang like that,but I'd probably get knocked out.Ha!Ha! I'd get hit so hard I would wake up and my clothes would be out of style.

Keep training, Mark

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#432832 - 06/16/11 10:10 PM Re: Defense in Karate [Re: gojuman59]
Matakiant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 121
What style do you practice Dobbersky?

And if you think full contact should begin at third brown how long is the average transition from that to black belt in your style.

Ohh and does it actually begin at third brown in your style?

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