I took my 5 year old son to a martial arts class and he loved it. After doing so, I did some research and the place seems questionable. I'm conflicted because he loves it and was so proud of himself after class. This kid has zero self confidence in the area of sports and it was GREAT to see that.

There's a place in town that seems reputable and serious about martial arts and is accredited by the BBB. I don't know if I should have him try that place out or continue with the place we've started at.

The only other time my son has tried sports (swimming and soccer), every lesson was met with tears and we ended up pulling him out, which is why I'm inclined to leave him at the cheesy place he seems to love. Talk some sense into me with your objective opinions, please.

Thanks!

Hi --

In what way is this place questionable? Your son may not need a place that's "serious" about martial arts at the moment. As long as it's not questionable for reasons of abuse of students or financial irregularities or other things that would impact your family, why not let him enjoy himself?

I haven't seen anything about abuse. I have seen a post by a former student complaining that he went there for two years and his certs are meaningless and he has to start over again. I know very little about this stuff, but I'm guessing that whatever belt/level he's achieved isn't universally recognized. This student also complained about high cost of gear that you are only allowed to purchase through the school as well as price of certs. Seems like reviews posted by the parents of young kids are good. I'm inclined to let him continue. We can always switch later if he wants to learn a recognized form of martial arts. The owner of this school made up his own form of martial arts. Is that common? I've seen that in yoga, and it's not necessarily bad. Usually it's a combo of traditional types. Thanks for your response, Hope. I appreciate it!

Welcome to the world of martial arts.

There are no official bodies to state what is an isn't valid martial arts, people make up stuff all the time, including styles. Also plenty of people with all the official looking certifications in the world are awful.

For a kid if he likes what he is doing, and there is nothing crazy or dangerous going then i'd say let him have at it.

This would be a very different question for an adult looking for something specific, but for a kid who (i'm assuming) is there mostly for confidence boost that comes from the physical activity, as long there is nothing crazy going and you aren't getting ripped off, then don't worry about it.

well LionMom, I'd check out the other place anyway, choosing a Martial arts school is a lot lot buying a car your not going to buy the first one you see without first checking out others, and even then it's unlikely you'll find one that ticks all your boxes.

A five year old is not going to take "Martial arts" seriously (or anything else for that matter), providing he is having fun, making friends, gains some form of activity/exercise, and it helps him transition into the social environment he is now facing at that age (ie he learns to play with others, learns to socialize) and is being safely supervised what does it matter if the club is what is commonly referred to as a McDojo (do you want fries with that).

Of course usually your hip pocket cops a bit more of a beating at a McDojo then art a more "legitimate" dojo, but if you can afford that and your happy with the safety and care provided then it's not going to have any real effect on your child's Martial arts career. and to be honest McDojos aren't as bad as most make out (except for those that blatantly misrepresent.

as for recognising grades most martial art organisations don't automatically accept a grade from another, and your still required to show competence in the new system. it's like university you can do half of a degree at one uni but when you swap to another to complete the qualification you are not going to have all your prior work recognized.

at the age of five your main concern for your son is his health,safety and well-being. from your posts you are on track here. here are a couple of things for you to think about when making a judgment about the suitability of a school for your youngster.

- are the kids being taught developmentally (physically emotionally and cognitively) appropriate things. for eg. a five year old should not be doing knuckle push ups, they should not be expected to have the same discipline that an adult has and they are not expected to know why your can or can't do something, at lest not with the same understanding as us adults (kids simply do not have enough life experience to be able to understand consequences, at five they are only just learning these things). is what they're teaching too advanced for the child ie are they teaching knife defence or high level force tactics to kids.

- are they adequately supervised, if there is just one instructor running a class of 40 children then walk away, they must have enough mature assistants to provide constant supervision. in Australia we have a "working with children card" which although not mandatory it is generally considered a requirement when working with children and teens, this are police checked and if in anyway you pose a threat to a child (such as a criminal record for violence) you simply can't get one. I have no idea where you are but see if there is any thing similar.

-Qualifications, chances are you won't be able to tell the difference between a legitimate qualification from a legitimate organisation and that of charlatan/fraudster. in fact most seasoned Martial Artists would not be able to either.

Ask the instructor "what makes them qualified for teaching a 5 year old", ignore any titles,ranks or certificates instead focus on how he/she answers the question. an answer say they have been doing it for 3 years now is a better answer then if they try to "sell" you their qualifications. when a human being is not confident in their ability to do something they will tend to provide too much information in an attempt to prove they are. so if he starts listing of a whole lot of martial arts qualifications stop him and say "no that stuff tells me someone else thinks you can teach martial arts, what qualifies YOU to teach my son".

again it is the way he responds that's important, if he feels he has to sell it to you then he doesn't feel he is competent, it's as simple as that. That's not to say he isn't, but its a tool for you to use to make a judgment.

- one especially good question to ask an instructor of children is this "have you ever abused child", the answer should always be a firm and resolute NO. If he asked you "how do you define abuse"or he hesitates too much, then walk away. think about it martial arts is self defence if an instructor is teaching kids martial arts then intrinsically he will be against ANY form of abuse.

I have had a parent ask me the exact same question, my answer was "No and I will not tolerate any form of abuse, if I suspect a student of mine is actually being abused I Will report it" well at least words to that effect.

The thing with these questions is that they enable you to use your own built in safety siren. call it intuition or mothers instinct or whatever, if something feels wrong about a situation or person then it probably is, you don't need to now what you just need to know that your intuition is warning you. we pick up every little clue but we often do not consciously do so. while our conscious part of our brain is processing the information we attend to the subconscious part is doing the same to everything else. you can think of your intuition as being simply your subconscious mind alerting your conscious mind that something is not right, sometimes it will say what it is other times it will just issue a warning about someone/thing. listen to it if your gut is saying this school is not right for your son than it probably isn't.

There is a great book written by Gavin De Becker titled "Protecting the Gift" it is all about keeping a child safe from abuse. There is a section in it about interviewing a babysitter that I believe can be used to great effect when selecting any adult care giver whether a nanny or a martial arts instructor, it is a book I recommend to any parent and any self protection instructor. get a copy and have a read.

sorry for the long post, but I intended the content to be generalized and applied in other aspects of self protection as well. (on a date, when someone comes to your door, when approached by a stranger asking the time etc).

Hope that helps you a little.

In short I would ask the questions above and I would also check out other schools in your area, a good instructor won't mind you doing this and it is your right as a consumer.

For the record I highly recommend Judo for children as young as your son, it is pretty much standardized across the world and the skills you learn can be of great benefit in real world self defence, also because they do not punch and kick it is often perceived as more favourable in the school yard if the unfortunate happens. Which would you rather hear that your son kicked and punched another student or that he pushed/tripped them over. It's fun, it provides a competitive/sporting element, it uses up a lot of there extra energy, its a great base to build further Martial Arts training and being traditional it provides discipline and all that other stuff Martial arts are known for.

Sorry again for the long post

At My grade, if I went to another Style to learn, I would have to train and begin as a white belt throwing away 15+ years of training. so at 5 years old hey no issues there

The Student who had to start again. 2 years would make him approximately a 5th to 4th Kyu so unless it is within the same style no school of Martial Arts would allow or acknowledge the grade ever, so he/She was just sad that they had to put a white belt on (I would take of my Black belt and wear a white belt)

let him enjoy it, and watch how he grows into a strong and disciplined young man

If the school is questionable, and if your son has been there too long, switch before its too late and he becomes too loyal.

If your son already has classmates that he enjoys being there with, let him continue and when he becomes of age or status, then switch

What are your sources for concluding that the place is questionable? For your peace of mind you can sit in his class and observe or maybe talk to the school owner or his instructor about your concern.

I agree with hope that "As long as it's not questionable for reasons of abuse of students or financial irregularities or other things that would impact your family, why not let him enjoy himself?"

Hello LionMom:

Welcome to Fighting Arts!

The "serious" schools will not take any children as students ever (ie koryu). They are teaching grown up things with very serious intensity, typically sharp weapons and require character references to literally even get through their door...

But what you are talking about(I suspect) is more the difference between tumbling, rolling, screaming loudly rah-rah you can do it cheesy-ness and so forth programs with a different and likely far more "dour" atmosphere in most respects?

What exactly is the BBB???

Here in the states there is no such thing as "accreditation". It is entirely invented and solely enforced, if ever, by the larger group to which a given school/teacher may or may not belong. But there is no such thing as some state/federal governmental panel of ~ancient masters~ who "approve" local schools.

To be a member of said larger "national", international or intergalactic organizations then you pay their various fees and poof achieve acceptable status retroactively... in most cases.

If the boy likes cheese... <shrug> you can give him better better experiences. Simply because he LIKES "fruit loops" does not mean you give them to him at every meal, or even because he likes it.

Mommy, Daddy get to make the choices until they are able to make them for themselves later on. At 5, 6 you still have the proverbial rudder. Take a look at the school you think is less cheesy. Visit a couple of classes. Once you have a sense of the flavor of the place THEN bring him to watch, or take part.

If you like the approach... the method consider enrolling. But bad idea to let them "decide", think they did fine, but the actual choice(s)... little ones are not able to see beyond fun or not fun. The idea of good and bad is still very alien in many ways.

Jeff

Questionable. As a parent, I would (as I do) look into the activity as far as researching and asking others who already are participating.

Questionable: "Question Everything"