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#431954 - 04/06/11 01:19 PM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: fileboy2002]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
Quote:
In the US, about half of all murders are related to domestic violence--i.e. they occur between family members, or people sharing the same household. Most of those murderers are not career criminals.


Nope-

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_10.html

Duane

edited to fix quote


Edited by MattJ (04/06/11 01:57 PM)

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#431955 - 04/06/11 02:10 PM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: duanew]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Duane -

Can you be a bit more specific with the "nope"? Unless I'm reading the chart wrong, it does seem to show that about half of the murders are commited by family, friends, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc, compared to strangers. Fileboy may not be strictly legally accurate with the "domestic violence", but it does seem he was in the right area by your chart.

I may not be reading it correctly, though - a bit confusing.
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#431959 - 04/06/11 07:53 PM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: duanew]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Duane, your chart completely supports what I am saying.

In fact, if I just tally up the total for family members--i.e. even if I exclude boyfriends, girlfriends, etc--I get 1,855. That's compared to just 1,676 for strangers.

Or am I missing something?

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#431984 - 04/08/11 05:16 PM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: fileboy2002]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
Look at the first line for totals-
Total number of murders 13,636

Committed by unknown 5,986
committed by aquaintance 2,941
total 8,927= 65% of 13,636
At least the way I read it.
Duane

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#431985 - 04/08/11 05:31 PM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: duanew]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Hmm. I disregarded the "unknown" total, figuring it meant they didn't know who did it, period - maybe an aquaintance, maybe not. I did not assume that "unknown" immediately meant stranger.

Throw out that number and it's much closer to what fileboy said.

EDIT - I counted everything other than 'strangers' towards fileboy's assertion, but I guess one could make a case that 'aquaintances' could count either way.


Edited by MattJ (04/08/11 05:36 PM)
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#431986 - 04/08/11 08:30 PM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: duanew]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
I agree the large number of "unknowns" muddies the picture a bit. But I think it stands to reason that for most part, people you know have more reason to kill you, just as they have more reason to love you. The essential point is that a lot of people killed by guns are not the victims of career criminals. Or, even if they are, they are not the victims of random crimes.

Just for the record, I am on the fence when it comes to gun control. But I just think many of the arguments put forward by 2nd Amendment advocates are weak ones. I think they'd do better arguing against gun control by focusing on the civil liberties aspect. It is perfectly reasonable to punish people for committing crimes with guns. It might be less reasonable to criminalize them simply for owning them.

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#431988 - 04/08/11 10:05 PM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: fileboy2002]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< It is perfectly reasonable to punish people for committing crimes with guns. It might be less reasonable to criminalize them simply for owning them. >>

Absolutely

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#431990 - 04/09/11 06:27 AM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: iaibear]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
I would define a Domestic situation between blood relatives, spouses,people in a significant relationship and people who live together.
I would define an aquaintance as someone you know.
Subtract the unknowns from the total you get 7650, 1855 is 41%.

Duane

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#431993 - 04/09/11 07:49 AM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: duanew]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Question: are these all gun crimes?

If a gun is not present but the situation still involves family violence, there are all manner of alternate choices. Call them weapons of opportunity. Kitchen knives and rolling pins, for instance. Should they be illegal?
-----------
And please forgive the silly smily face. I did not choose it and I cannot change it without help. The alternatives offered in the upper right hand corner are still pretty corny.


Edited by iaibear (04/09/11 07:54 AM)

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#431996 - 04/09/11 10:06 AM Re: Culture of violence: Gun crime in UK [Re: iaibear]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Strict gun control sure worked well for Washington DC and according to what I've read Chicago right? Oh wait no, gun criem rates actually increased over that of some palces with very lax gun control laws.
Here's something you guys might fidn interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA
You then have to take into consideration countries like Switzerland where everyone has a gun and ammo and there is almost no gun crime rate at all.
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