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#431976 - 04/07/11 10:24 PM Control
Brusashi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/12/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Florida
I'm the senior student in my Kenpo Karate class and it seems that everyone who holds a lower rank than I lacks control when we do our spontaneous drills and pretty much when we practice our techniques. My instructor doesn't seem to admonish them when they don't exercise control, but he will be quick to tell me to use good control. What should I do? I've talked to my fellow students but it doesn't seem to get through to them.

Part of me wants to put some force into my technique, but at the same time I want to avoid trouble and I really don't want to hurt them either.
_________________________
"I come to you with only Karate - empty hands, I have no weapons; but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor; should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong, then here are my weapons Karate, my empty hands"

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#431987 - 04/08/11 08:46 PM Re: Control [Re: Brusashi]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
In a way, all striking arts are victims of their own potential dangerousness.

One thing all striking arts have in common is that they seek to stop attacks by doing serious bodily harm to the attacker. That makes it nearly impossible to practice under realistic conditions. The few striking arts that do feature lots of "alive" training--e.g. boxing, Muay Thai--have limited mass appeal.

Muay Thai and boxing are mass SPECTATOR sports, but not mass PARTICIPANT sports. Arts that require people to trade full-force punches and kicks just aren't going just aren't going to hold much appeal to anyone except the young and highly fit.

The problem of teaching "control" grows out of this contradiction. I think you need to discuss this openly with your instructors. Have them set some concrete, specific guidelines on on what controlled technique is all about.

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#432006 - 04/09/11 08:05 PM Re: Control [Re: fileboy2002]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Control sometimes is over done, some force isn't something to be afraid of. If peopel are trying to take your head off or dropping you or bloodying you up regularly, that's an issue but getting tagged isn't going to kill you. Just saying.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#432034 - 04/11/11 07:44 AM Re: Control [Re: Stormdragon]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 907
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
I understand it from both sides.
In my style my rule is the lower grade controls the pace then it goes by age etc.
I do state that the higher grade especially blackbelts are NOT living punchbags!
The thing you need to do is add a bit more power but not enough to give your Sensei a reason to speak to you = Control.

You wouldn't strike a 14 year old with the same power as a 25 year old etc
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#432052 - 04/12/11 04:31 PM Re: Control [Re: Dobbersky]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Just to add to a lot of good points that have been made: A lot of skills that are being trained in a full contact sparring session are mainly to do with timing. What people should (IMO) be trying to do is develop a strong sense of timing and distance. That is the real benefit of sparring full on. Want to know how hard you can hit? Ask a punch bag. You can train with a realistic sense of timing and movement while not trying to take someone's head off.

The goal of sparring isn't to see how hard you can hit. I think that needs to be emphasized in sparring, especially to those folks who seem to lack control.

Another point I would make is that a lot of people are afraid of getting hit, especially newbies in martial arts classes. This leads to a lot of tension (heck, even a lot of stress) in a student. This can manifest itself as aggression in sparring or panicky movements that lack control. If this is the case, getting the student to relax and overcome their fear may resolve the issue.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#432053 - 04/12/11 05:19 PM Re: Control [Re: Prizewriter]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Good points, prizewriter.
I guess getting hit on occasion is a part of training in a contact sport.
As a newbie to martial arts, I kind of expected to get hit on occasion, and I have been. It's no big deal to me if it's accidential.
I've been more concerned with trying to avoid hitting someone else than I have been with getting hit, but I have trained with guys who exercise little control, most often young white belts, and it can be frustrating, but a short explanation has done the trick thus far.
A good instructor should rectify the situation if he is aware of it.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

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#432055 - 04/12/11 07:47 PM Re: Control [Re: choonbee]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Training to not hit is not a good idea if you have any desire to be able to handle yourself in a real situation, you'll do exactly that. Doesn't mean sparring needs to result in constant knockdowns but some force is important. Doesn't do you any good to have people not really hit you either.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#432064 - 04/13/11 05:26 AM Re: Control [Re: Stormdragon]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Being that I'm new to the martial arts, I haven't done any full contact sparring as of yet. They had me participate in sparring where we go for openings using our techniques.
The hitting that I've done thus far has been done using bags and focus mitts.
Our school wants you to have at least 6 months of training under your belt before they consider letting you do full contact sparring.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

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#432076 - 04/13/11 03:01 PM Re: Control [Re: choonbee]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
That sounds about right. Starting out it just turns into a brawl otherwise.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#432083 - 04/13/11 08:54 PM Re: Control [Re: Stormdragon]
Mark Jordan Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Burbank, California
Control is something that improves with experience and time. Of course your control is better than lower ranking students, as it should be. Other students can't help it if they don't have the same level of control as you do. They don't have your level of experience.

Seniority brings with it more responsibility. You must have patience and understanding that each time you workout with a lower ranking student, you are taking a risk. Know that they will make mistakes, and don't let it bother you. Be willing to take a little extra punishment so that the student can learn. This is what it takes to be a leader. Just keep reminding them to work on their control. It will eventually get through.

Apparently, your instructor is looking for that patience in you. He wants to see how you react to these types of situations. A good instructor will always be much harder on the higher ranking students, because much more is expected of them. He wants to see if you have what it takes to be an instructor. Show him you are a leader. Lead by example.

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