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#431974 - 04/07/11 05:41 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: iaibear]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
Hasn't this forum developed a "Political Nature"?


I think it's close too but restraint has been shown. I think the topic is the nature of discussion, not the content directly.

Point being, it's not what you say but how you say it. The possible reason political discussion is not allowed is because people tend toward knuckle-headed tactics and name calling instead of presenting ideas and supporting them with facts or logic.

The reason the board has slowed down IMHO is there were a few years where pretty much everything was covered, in depth. So now (since we can't get into politics) we are left discussing the nature of discussion.


Edited by Kimo2007 (04/07/11 09:30 PM)
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#431977 - 04/08/11 05:53 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Kimo2007]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:
The reason the board has slowed down IMHO is there were a few years where pretty much everything was covered, in depth. So now (since we can't get into politics) we are left discussing the nature of discussion.


This is true.

Also, to an extent, the heated nature of political and religious debate is the reason for it being so heavily controlled on here, but more than that, they are 2 subjects in which nobody will be swayed.

Think about it. You have a set of beliefs that have been formed by your experiences and personal interperatation of the world you live in. If those beliefs differ from mine, does me effectively saying 'you're wrong' alter your views in any way? Of course not, any more than you presenting your arguments to me will alter my world perception.

So, really, what's the point? Why go through the mental hoops of justification, refutation, and the general unpleasantries of effectively trying to smash the foundation stones of one anothers very beings?

The best you ever get in a political and/or religious debate is a denoument where people 'agree to disagree'. Well I can do that right now without going through the process of anger/name calling and smug retorts that tend to proceed that inevitable impasse.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#431982 - 04/08/11 03:44 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Cord]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Actually Cord I respectfully disagree. I was raised a devout protestant fudnamentalist christian and was one for a very long time. A few people in my life, 2 teachers and a close friend convinced me of other views after many long discussions. I have gone far, far into the other direction since then. I've seen people's views radically alter through discourse, it may not happen all the time, or even the majority of the time but enough to make it worthwhile, at least in some places (not saying here should be one of those).
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#432019 - 04/10/11 11:32 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Stormdragon]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon
Actually Cord I respectfully disagree. I was raised a devout protestant fudnamentalist christian and was one for a very long time. A few people in my life, 2 teachers and a close friend convinced me of other views after many long discussions.


These are the life experiences of which I speak. Of course teachers and friends carry weight - you know them, you come to respect them, and ergo your mind becomes receptive to what they have to say, and vice versa.

I maybe should have been clearer, and stipulated that the kind of discourse I refer to is that between strangers- in the old days, it was the preserve of bars and pubs, where booze loosens the tongue and such debates often sprang up between casual acquaintances and strangers over a beer or 8 wink
Now the environment has expanded to the internet, where people are happy to clash over any and every subject.
In either scenario, the purpose is to validate and strengthen one's own opinion, not open the mind to contrary beliefs, as those presenting them have no personal weight or merit.
I have always liked the saying 'winning an internet argument is like winning at the special olympics - even in victory, you are still retarded' wink
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#432023 - 04/10/11 03:14 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Cord]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
What, hardly anyone likes or respects teachers! lol Anyway, yeah I get what you mean and I think it's even more of an issue on the internet, people change online.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#432038 - 04/11/11 05:03 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Cord]
choonbee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: Cord

I have always liked the saying 'winning an internet argument is like winning at the special olympics - even in victory, you are still retarded' ;


Lol.
Excellent point.
_________________________
Insert profound martial arts quotes or tough guy phrases here.

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#432049 - 04/12/11 10:09 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: VDJ]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Originally Posted By: VDJ
For awhile I supported the rules of the board but no longer do as there is some hypocracy that pertains to it. The thread "Entitlements" was locked down due to its political nature. Yet several months ago the thread of "G.D. the Supreme Court" is 4 pages long and is still open! This is how freedom is lost, in baby steps! It starts on a board by limiting what is able to be discussed and shuting down debate and spreads from there! The board is set up to discuss AND debate things of Martial Arts nature, which in of itself can be political. We have seen flamers come and go, some get banned (not sure I agree with this anymore either) and others do not (this is not SPECIFICALLY directed to the FA board as I have seen it on other boards as well).

I can't disagree more with cord, the discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion is exactly how the USA began its birthing process, it took awhile, but the founders came to a conclusion and went on from there. This thread may also get locked down, but before the Moderator decides to do that just think to yourself, when will MY voice get shut down?! As ther board has become slower regarding Martial Arts topics, when a topic comes up, it should NOT be discarded for fear of where it may lead. If that is the way it is going to be (especially in the "General Discussion" forum), then it is no longer imteresting to visit, and that is where I am at now.The topics here have become very uninteresting. I rarely post and my visits are fewer. Maybe its me, but I just don't find coming to the board enjoyable anymore! I will continue to lurk, but not participate as much.

VDJ



Well said and I agree. You haven't seen me much on here in a long time,lol.

I refuse to visit or be a big part of a board whose political and religious views are opposite of mine. I can argue for a while, but it wears me out.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#432057 - 04/13/11 03:05 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: BrianS]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: BrianS

I refuse to visit or be a big part of a board whose political and religious views are opposite of mine. I can argue for a while, but it wears me out.


With respect Brian, this is precisely why the rules on religious and political discussion exist - so that people need not feel excluded, and can share their excellent martial art knowledge and experience in an environment devoid of unnecessary factors that focus on our differences, not our bond in the love of the arts.

If you think about it, the people on here that offered you heartfelt support and friendship during your troubles, are now the liberals and heathens you no longer feel inclined to interact with. That only came about because of the experiment to relax the rules on religion and politics frown
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#432060 - 04/13/11 04:56 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: BrianS
Originally Posted By: VDJ
For awhile I supported the rules of the board but no longer do as there is some hypocracy that pertains to it. The thread "Entitlements" was locked down due to its political nature. Yet several months ago the thread of "G.D. the Supreme Court" is 4 pages long and is still open! This is how freedom is lost, in baby steps! It starts on a board by limiting what is able to be discussed and shuting down debate and spreads from there! The board is set up to discuss AND debate things of Martial Arts nature, which in of itself can be political. We have seen flamers come and go, some get banned (not sure I agree with this anymore either) and others do not (this is not SPECIFICALLY directed to the FA board as I have seen it on other boards as well).

I can't disagree more with cord, the discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion is exactly how the USA began its birthing process, it took awhile, but the founders came to a conclusion and went on from there. This thread may also get locked down, but before the Moderator decides to do that just think to yourself, when will MY voice get shut down?! As ther board has become slower regarding Martial Arts topics, when a topic comes up, it should NOT be discarded for fear of where it may lead. If that is the way it is going to be (especially in the "General Discussion" forum), then it is no longer imteresting to visit, and that is where I am at now.The topics here have become very uninteresting. I rarely post and my visits are fewer. Maybe its me, but I just don't find coming to the board enjoyable anymore! I will continue to lurk, but not participate as much.

VDJ



Well said and I agree. You haven't seen me much on here in a long time,lol.

I refuse to visit or be a big part of a board whose political and religious views are opposite of mine. I can argue for a while, but it wears me out.


Funny, you don't refuse to be part of a society where the majority of people have political and religious views opposite of yours. And this site is about martial arts primarily. You could just talk about that stuff unless you just don't like associating with people who don't view things the same way as you (even when discussing unrelated stuff to religion and politics). No one makes you argue that stuff so why complain? And how do you know some of your views might not be wrong? You could learn something. It's intellectual dishonesty and insecurity to refuse to not be open to other views and questioning of your own. Dogma isn't a tenet of any martial art I know. I mean no offense by any of this, you're a good guy but such an attitude isn't conducive to learning or developing good friendships. Everyone will differ from you at least somewhat on those things. I'm very non-religious and very liberal on a lot of things, yet we've had good discussions on the martial arts and on our commonalities as soldiers, why does religious and political differences have to get in the way of that?


Edited by Stormdragon (04/13/11 04:58 AM)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#432067 - 04/13/11 10:00 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Stormdragon]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< I'm very non-religious and very liberal on a lot of things, yet we've had good discussions on the martial arts and on our commonalities as soldiers, why does religious and political differences have to get in the way of that? >>

I enjoy your opinions, Stormy, and BrianS', as well. I feel his gripe is not with the subject matter as much as the fact that 'discussion' itself is getting limited. We have all had dandy discussions about Martial Arts on the Martial Arts forum. This is the General Talk forum. I would hate to see it gelded.

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