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#431612 - 02/23/11 09:19 AM Censorship of the board
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
For awhile I supported the rules of the board but no longer do as there is some hypocracy that pertains to it. The thread "Entitlements" was locked down due to its political nature. Yet several months ago the thread of "G.D. the Supreme Court" is 4 pages long and is still open! This is how freedom is lost, in baby steps! It starts on a board by limiting what is able to be discussed and shuting down debate and spreads from there! The board is set up to discuss AND debate things of Martial Arts nature, which in of itself can be political. We have seen flamers come and go, some get banned (not sure I agree with this anymore either) and others do not (this is not SPECIFICALLY directed to the FA board as I have seen it on other boards as well).

I can't disagree more with cord, the discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion is exactly how the USA began its birthing process, it took awhile, but the founders came to a conclusion and went on from there. This thread may also get locked down, but before the Moderator decides to do that just think to yourself, when will MY voice get shut down?! As ther board has become slower regarding Martial Arts topics, when a topic comes up, it should NOT be discarded for fear of where it may lead. If that is the way it is going to be (especially in the "General Discussion" forum), then it is no longer imteresting to visit, and that is where I am at now.The topics here have become very uninteresting. I rarely post and my visits are fewer. Maybe its me, but I just don't find coming to the board enjoyable anymore! I will continue to lurk, but not participate as much.

VDJ



Edited by Cord (02/24/11 10:27 AM)
Edit Reason: political aside removed

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#431622 - 02/24/11 08:15 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: VDJ]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Suck it up, Princess.

Yes, I thought the supreme court thread should have been shut down, along with other threads that weren't.

Discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion may be how the USA began. This is NOT Colonial America. Neither is this a free place. This is a private website owned and operated by private entities that allow you to participate at THEIR leisure. It also has participants from around the world so there is no Constitution or Bill of Rights that apply. If you feel stifled, then create your own website and talk how you want there. You ARE free to do that if you wish.

If you feel rules are being selectively applied, then stating your opinion in a factual manner is much more productive than whining about being the oppressed minority. But in the end, unless you are a moderator, then you have no powers except the power to leave.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#431624 - 02/24/11 10:26 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: VDJ]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Good grief, what are you auditioning for, local government, or an oscar wink

To answer your points.

1. This is not the USA. This is a website with a global community, that embraces different cultural and religious concepts by keeping them out of discussions, so that personal dogma's do not cloud meeting of minds through a unified interest in martial arts.

2. The rules of the site are set neither by admin, nor moderators (plural, its not just me btw), they are set by the site owner - the guy who invests his time and money in providing the space for us to use. His house, his rules. Complaints to the organ grinder, not his monkeys please wink

3. Inconsistency is human. We are human. Hence some threads get more room to breath than others. I personaly have not seen the other thread you mention, but will look for it now, and lock it in the name of consistency. I am sure this will delight you.

4. If the site content bores you, you have 2 choices. 1. Raise your game and come up with interesting martial topics for us all to discuss within parameters of the rules that you agreed to upon setting up your account, or 2. move on and find a dedicated forum that caters to your inerests and needs. Thats freedom of choice in action right there. Rejoice.

5. If martial topics evolve to embrace certain political input and it is valid, then leeway can be granted in the name of the topic, but overt purely political discussion is just off topic, and does not enrich the site - I wouldnt go to a politics board to discuss self defence, and I wouldnt visit an MA site to talk politics. Horses for courses eh?

6. I wont lock this topic, but I am going to edit out your ninja furtherance of a political topic. Thats how I roll.

Have a nice day.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#431627 - 02/24/11 01:11 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Vince, I can understand that you might see a bit of hypocrisy with the other thread recently getting locked. But if you look back through the history of the General Talk forum, we have allowed discussion of many other conservative-leaning (for want of a better term?) threads to go on for a quite a bit.

Sometimes we're just inconsistent about locking stuff. There's no conspiracy, my friend. smile
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#431629 - 02/24/11 04:17 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: MattJ]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
Or maybe we're giving people enough rope to hang themselves.
_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#431630 - 02/24/11 07:00 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Zombie Zero]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ha, that's been true, too, Z! XD

And ironically, the idea that there is a moderator bias or view is kind of funny to me, because I have personally been accused of being both too lenient AND too strict at times (and even at the same time) - by some of the other moderators, LOL. And have leveled the same accusations at them, too. Such is life. We all have our own biases, but they're not all the same......I assure you.

When you look at the overall "freedom" level of this site compared to others, we are much more on the "freedom" side of things. But I'm sure some will disagree. laugh
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#431632 - 02/25/11 09:29 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: JoelM]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Originally Posted By: JoelM
Suck it up, Princess.

Yes, I thought the supreme court thread should have been shut down, along with other threads that weren't.

Discussion and debate of BOTH politics AND religion may be how the USA began. This is NOT Colonial America. Neither is this a free place. This is a private website owned and operated by private entities that allow you to participate at THEIR leisure. It also has participants from around the world so there is no Constitution or Bill of Rights that apply. If you feel stifled, then create your own website and talk how you want there. You ARE free to do that if you wish.

If you feel rules are being selectively applied, then stating your opinion in a factual manner is much more productive than whining about being the oppressed minority. But in the end, unless you are a moderator, then you have no powers except the power to leave.



Where in my post have I claimed to be an "Oppressed Minority"?! I did state my opinion in a factual manner. It is FACTUAL that there have been threads of a political nature that have NOT been locked down and others that HAVE! Where is that not factual "Princess"? Yes it is a private site, BUT the owner IS an American citizen who is protected by the constitution as his site is originated here! And you make my point BEAUTIFULLY, ONLY the Mods have the freedom to choose WHAT political threads can be locked down or not!

VDJ

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#431633 - 02/25/11 09:50 AM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Cord]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Originally Posted By: Cord
Good grief, what are you auditioning for, local government, or an oscar wink

The only thing I'm seeking is fairness!

To answer your points.

1. This is not the USA. This is a website with a global community, that embraces different cultural and religious concepts by keeping them out of discussions, so that personal dogma's do not cloud meeting of minds through a unified interest in martial arts.

Then do away with the "General Discussion" Forum as that makes people think they can have , well, a General discussion. My reference to the USA's birthing process was just that, a reference as how the debates of the topics were not shut down!

2. The rules of the site are set neither by admin, nor moderators (plural, its not just me btw), they are set by the site owner - the guy who invests his time and money in providing the space for us to use. His house, his rules. Complaints to the organ grinder, not his monkeys please wink

Does not Mr. Calie read his own site? Maybe if he see's there are unhappy campers, he changes the rules!

3. Inconsistency is human. We are human. Hence some threads get more room to breath than others. I personaly have not seen the other thread you mention, but will look for it now, and lock it in the name of consistency. I am sure this will delight you.

No, it doesn't delight me at all as it goes against what I'm complaining about to begin with (just being consistent)!

4. If the site content bores you, you have 2 choices. 1. Raise your game and come up with interesting martial topics for us all to discuss within parameters of the rules that you agreed to upon setting up your account, or 2. move on and find a dedicated forum that caters to your inerests and needs. Thats freedom of choice in action right there. Rejoice.

I have tried as have others and the board still lies some what dorment. Yes I agreed to the rules 5 years ago and if you read my post, I have CLEARLY stated that due to incosistencies I have changed my mind!

5. If martial topics evolve to embrace certain political input and it is valid, then leeway can be granted in the name of the topic, but overt purely political discussion is just off topic, and does not enrich the site - I wouldnt go to a politics board to discuss self defence, and I wouldnt visit an MA site to talk politics. Horses for courses eh?

If self defence comes up on a politcal site, I say have at it! Again, see above about having (or NOT having) a "General Discussion" forum!

6. I wont lock this topic, but I am going to edit out your ninja furtherance of a political topic. Thats how I roll.

Have a nice day.


I usally do!

VDJ

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#431634 - 02/25/11 02:16 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: VDJ]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: VDJ
Yes it is a private site, BUT the owner IS an American citizen who is protected by the constitution as his site is originated here!


He is also the person who created the rules that prevent free speech on political subjects on these forums.

Originally Posted By: VDJ
And you make my point BEAUTIFULLY, ONLY the Mods have the freedom to choose WHAT political threads can be locked down or not!


Actually, the point is that we DONT have that 'freedom'. As mods, we are obliged to ensure adherence to the site rules. On a personal level, I have no real issue or interest on political threads, they never resolve anything, are seldom pleasant, but if people want to argue to a standstill with strangers, I say 'good luck to you'. Sadly, the site rules dont allow me to allow you to do this.

Early on in the life of the 'general talk' forum the mods decided to give greater leeway to the life of non martialart topics, so that should they tread political paths, they would be given room to right themselves.

In that spirit, some political topics have been let loose, dependant on the judgement call of the mod who happens to see them. Apparently you are unhappy that this has happened, so to level the playing field, I for one am more than happy to reinforce zero tolerance in accordance with the letter, not the spirit, of the site rules.

Hope this meets with your approval.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#431635 - 02/25/11 04:04 PM Re: Censorship of the board [Re: Cord]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
It's an internet site, not a government, you can't apply political structures like the constitution to it, especially when it's comprised of members from multiple countries. Go to the supreme court if you think otherwise.
For better or worse, not everyone holds the american view of free speech and so the owner has decided not to force it on people. Deal with it.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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