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#430726 - 10/28/10 10:10 PM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: hope]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Hope:

Only problem in that belief being that you or I then receive those mistaken teachings. At some point we wasted our time learning from a well meaning but incompetant teacher. We have to unlearn the mistakes taught...

Where do we learn the skills of "riot control", large group instruction of dynamic physical skills rather than "blander" academic instruction?

Nobody is likely to be actually hurt by mistaken art history, political science, stastics. A mistaken block, or kick <cringe>

Jeff

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#430727 - 10/28/10 10:21 PM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: iaibear]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello iaibear:

What happens to those who seperate from their instructors prey tell? I require no permission, no sanctioning authority to teach my art. Whether that is good or bad I cannot say.

The question becomes does what and how we present our practies attract students, those who wish to study our particular skills, practices, approach.

Merely my opinion, I could surely be mistaken.
Jeff

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#430731 - 10/28/10 11:54 PM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: Ronin1966]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
I had permission to teach our Iaido class if our instructor could not make it.
At another time, I was informed by the "powers that be" that having a third level black belt, it still was not good enough to sign a permission for a student to test formally, even though I would not be one of the judges.
It depends on the situation.
BTW, I have never had the intention of starting my own school.

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#430738 - 10/29/10 11:44 AM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: Ronin1966]
hope Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Originally Posted By: Ronin1966
Only problem in that belief being that you or I then receive those mistaken teachings. At some point we wasted our time learning from a well meaning but incompetant teacher. We have to unlearn the mistakes taught...

Where do we learn the skills of "riot control", large group instruction of dynamic physical skills rather than "blander" academic instruction?

Nobody is likely to be actually hurt by mistaken art history, political science, stastics. A mistaken block, or kick <cringe>

Jeff


Hi Jeff -- I think you misunderstood my post! I didn't say a coaching course was a substitute for skill, but that skill wasn't enough to be a good teacher. It's ALSO good to have some training in teaching. Teaching is a skill, like MA. You need both skills to teach MA.
_________________________
God grant me a good sword and no use for it. -- Polish proverb

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#430739 - 10/29/10 11:50 AM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: Prizewriter]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
BB IMHO defeniately does not equal teacher.
I agree with points already made, like BBs teaching help lazy teachers or give school owners a break, allow for McDojos to grow & flourish, as well as make more schools with more money coming in, especially via testing fees, which in essence often become a retirement program for the original school owner, the instructor who sends out their students to teach or open schools.
To me it is easy, define the terms:
BB = one who has reached a certain level in a MA
Teacher = one who spreads knowledge
While there may be nothing wrong with a BB helping out by leading a class from time to time, that IMHO is not teaching. There is also nothing wrong with any senior student helping out any other student, or any student for that matter that can help a fellow student learn, grasp or become better.
However IMHO to teach, one must have 3 general things:
1) desire to share knowledge
2) sufficent understanding themselves of the knowledge they wish to share
3) the ability to share that knowledge in a way that will be understood, absorbed in a way that the knowledge will be retained by others & useful for them

The thing that helped me best to share knowledge with fellow students was taking academic methods of instruction classes, which helped me tremendously to be a able to share more efficiently.

So a BB does not equal a teacher! JMHO!

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#430820 - 11/06/10 11:45 AM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: iaibear]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello iaibear:

Were you content with that situation, not "permitted" supposedly due to your rank? Your instructor said you were good enough... complete strangers said differently.

How do/did you solve that?

You raise another excellent point IMHO... can we still be teachers, instructors if we do not "own" a dojo/kwan/dojang. Is a school necessary to teach do you think?


Jeff

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#430821 - 11/06/10 06:33 PM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: Ronin1966]
mukashimantis Offline
Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 36
Loc: new york
I agree with ITFunity. BB does not equal teacher. Like a teacher of anything else, the student must have the desire to teach and the ability to convey those teachings in a way that others can and want to learn. Fight experience certainly helps, and I don't mean in a ring. A teacher should be able to tell if a student will make a good teacher, one good reason to let senior students teach a little bit to lower ranks. As to whether you need a dojo, I taught for a few years in garages, fields, anywhere I could gather students. It is nice to have a place,though. Mantis

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#430823 - 11/06/10 11:29 PM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: Ronin1966]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
When my original sensei's own instructor left the area, he gave his top student the right to teach the first three ryuha, at which he was really quite skilled. That totalled thirty-six kata. The one stipulation was he should tell his students, up front, that basically it was information only. He would not be able to sign permission allowing them to test. My sensei's job kept him from the long trip to the nearest dojo with such capability. At the time none of us had any illusions of grandeur. We just wanted to learn Iaido.

This was quite satisfactory for over four years.

When my sensei had taught me to the limit of his permission, I started making monthly trips to Massachusetts to study Muso Shinden Iaido under a ranked instructor. At the next North Eastern Seminar I was permitted to test and was granted Shodan. They said if I had requested it, I could have been granted Nidan. I said I thought I needed to extra time. They said they would permit me to try for nidan the following year, which I did. Three years later I was granted sandan as well. But I did not have the time to study the several concentrated months required to earn jodan. So I was never able to sign the permission for my original sensei to test officially. I regret it to this day.


Edited by iaibear (11/06/10 11:32 PM)
Edit Reason: additional info

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#430825 - 11/07/10 12:59 PM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: iaibear]
Shi Ronglang Offline
石榮狼
Member

Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 91
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
I make little or no connection between teaching and a black belt.

As a rule of thumb I consider shodan level to be way insufficient to start one's own school; while on the other hand my first instructor, a funny and highly multiversed Japanese dude who who was (and still is) one of the very best martial artists I've ever seen, never stayed long enough in any dojo to earn a black belt in any particular system.
_________________________
Wen wu shuang quan

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#430830 - 11/07/10 10:56 PM Re: Black Belt = Teacher?? [Re: Shi Ronglang]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
A belt it something to hold your saya.

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