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#430529 - 10/18/10 10:09 PM One reason why dojos have become day-care centers.
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
I don't know if it's true, so I'm throwing this out.

Martial arts schools have become day-care centers because our schools have failed us. So parents have to go elsewhere to get the guidance that their children need.

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#430533 - 10/19/10 02:31 AM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Martial arts have become child friendly because.

a) Parents have been told that their children need to be engaged in 'contructive' persuits outside of school to prevent them becoming obese, sociopathic, or both.

b) Because the media preys on the public's fear of peadophile's, perverts and kidnappers, so more and more children are not allowed to entertain themselves outside of adult supervision.

c) Parents believe that MA training will somehow increase the safety of their kids in the face of the group mentioned in b)

d) Kids themselves are more MA aware, and want to train it themselves. When I was a child, we had Monkey Magic and later, The Karate Kid. That was it. Now MA feature in everything from Disney cartoons to secret agent Hamsters, whilst the internet means access to adult action movies is easier than pre 90's.

e) Martial arts classes are happy to market themselves on a combination of factors that speak to the fears and motivations within points a) to d) in order to maximise profits.
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#430534 - 10/19/10 02:48 AM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: Cord]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
But this then means schools have failed, because schools are supposed to teach the skills that MA schools are now claiming to teach.

Shouldn't schools be doing this?

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#430536 - 10/19/10 05:18 AM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Shi Ronglang Offline
石榮狼
Member

Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 91
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Not in my opinion. I think the role of schools is to teach knowledge, not values: that would be the parents' job (in my opinion, there again).

Appart maybe from a limited set on which pretty much everyone can agree, I think of schools teaching values (or attempting to do so) as a dangerous case of State-controlled mind-formatting.

But then again, our schools (well, don't know about "yours", but definitely our French ones over here) have failed us in so many ways already (starting with "teaching our kids how to read and write", for instance) that an extra line on their slate will hardly make a difference. grin
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#430537 - 10/19/10 06:24 AM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
But this then means schools have failed, because schools are supposed to teach the skills that MA schools are now claiming to teach.

Shouldn't schools be doing this?


eh? so you think that schools should be the source of all outside of school activities? That they should teach a curriculum of self defence? That they should pander to, and profit from parental fear fuelled by media?

I see no element of the points i made that could, or should, be addressed by the scholastic system.

School should teach kids how to read, write, do math, and give them a basic knowledge of the world that they will enter after they graduate. The social skills learned at school are nothing to do with the teachers, they are taught through navigating day to day life existing shoulder to shoulder with 2000 other children 5 days a week.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#430539 - 10/19/10 08:34 AM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: Cord]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
Many traditional-based American dojos do not teach children, especially if they deal with weaponry. I know of one that teaches kobudo to older teens, and I believe there is one iaido dojo out west that teaches children. In Japan it is rather common to teach children iaido, but they probably have the cultural background to understand it at an earlier age.

Kathryn

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#430542 - 10/19/10 10:47 AM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: Kathryn]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
MA schools teach social skills??? That never happened when I was training.

But I guess it all comes down to what people think schools should do. I mean, I was never on the school teams, so I've been wondering why the school varsity teams got funding from the government but not my master. That didn't seem fair.

Furthermore, there are after-school activities that children have to do, and maybe martial arts should be one of them. And, if some activities like football are paid for by the government, then so should martial arts.

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#430544 - 10/19/10 01:18 PM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:
But I guess it all comes down to what people think schools should do. I mean, I was never on the school teams, so I've been wondering why the school varsity teams got funding from the government but not my master. That didn't seem fair.


Because the education system in general is funded by the government, and so the activities controlled by it are by extension government funded. Also, the coaches have academic and uniformly recognised qualifications, as well as having had full police checks prior to being employed by the schools.

A martial arts teacher needs none of these things to offer their services, and indeed, it was only 3 years ago that in the US, a TKD instructor was found guilty of grooming and sexually abusing his junior students. Ironic that parents would send their children into danger from a stranger, whilst attempting to help them ward off that very thing.

Quote:
Furthermore, there are after-school activities that children have to do, and maybe martial arts should be one of them. And, if some activities like football are paid for by the government, then so should martial arts.


Not going to happen. For one, the activity is not important- its not what builds the character. It is the commitment and dedication, the patience and drive to succeed, along with the friendships made along the way that do that - from football, to chess. So Martial arts offer no discernable advantage over existing activities on offer.

After all, you said yourself
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
MA schools teach social skills??? That never happened when I was training.


Nuff said.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#430546 - 10/19/10 03:04 PM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: Cord]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
You know, the MA schools NEVER offered birthday parties, and, since I read military history, I have this image in my mind.

Quote:
The American Armored Division - helped achieve Allied breakout at Normandy in WWII, fought Saddam Hussein's Imperial Guards at the First Gulf War, fought two other Iraqi Armored Divisions in the Second. Now, at a special discount, the soldiers will be available for birthday parties for toddlers and induct them into the Little Lieutenants Program.


You can see how absurd this is. But this is what's happening to MA schools. I don't know if they're filling a market gap that may be better filled by schools, but I don't see why parents would trust trained fighters to teach social skills to children. Where's the link???

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#430547 - 10/19/10 03:29 PM Re: One reason why dojos have become day-care centers. [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Well, I think Cord nailed it with his break down of the reasons parents send their kids to the dojo.

What I would like to add is that, as a parent, I don't see it as a bad thing when a dojo teaches these 'kinder m.a.' programs. The economy really sucks right now pretty much everywhere, and if teaching kids allows an instructor to keep his school running so that he can teach his art to adults, well more power to her/him.

I guess I don't really understand what the problem is here. When my sisters were kids, they took gymnastics. The program was obviously different than the one for adults. Some of the instructors taught both adults and kids. I don't think that any of them felt that the adults were getting subpar training in gymnastics due to kids being at the gym for a few hours a day and the instructors teaching both.

What I'm saying is that martial artists need to lighten up. I think the issues with kids in m.a. is that when you see them leaving the dojo it, to an extant, infantilizes YOUR training (you don't want to be doing something that kids do, you want something hardcore). A good academy can have really great kids program and a really good adults program too.

That all being said, I don't like any place where the training or selling point is one of fear and increasing paranoia...whether that's for kids or adults.


Edited by Ames (10/19/10 03:30 PM)
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--Basho

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