FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 35 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
old1, Leonar, ManLar, Vimido, raya
22925 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 3
Ronin1966 3
AndyLA 1
Victor Smith 1
GojuRyuboy13 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Forum Stats
22925 Members
36 Forums
35582 Topics
432510 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#430413 - 10/11/10 11:23 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Jokatech]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: Jokatech
TMA's by MAJORITY tend to be drowned in alot of katas and extraneous techniques. However, there are very effective techiques to be found in some of the advanced styles such as Wing Tsun and JKD.


JKD is not a TMA. It sis the very antithesis of TMA

Quote:
Although, I have just joined an MMA camp, as we train, I see situations where it can really benefit you to know the intricacies of locks and holds from WT even off of the ground. Like Bruce Lee said, "Take what is useful. Discard what is useless." That principle makes ultimate sense to me.


That means you are fundamentaly against the dogmatic academic transimition of everything pertaining to a codified art.

Quote:
There are holes in all styles, even MMA styles such as boxing, MT, and BJJ. I don't take my wariness of TMA too far to the point where I shun techniques that can add to my self defense.


BJJ is a pure form of jujitsu, its not an MMA. Muay Thai is a pure TMA. Boxing is a pure form of pugilism.

You are confused as to what TMA and MMA means.

Quote:
It's not about styles, it's about all of the phases of combat. The goal is to cover effective techniques for all fight situations. That's my goal and I don't crop my vision when it comes to what I add to this goal.


Thats the goal of everyone who trains to be a functional fighter. It is not the default goal in codified martial arts training though, and there in lies the fundmental schism in philosophy.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#430424 - 10/11/10 09:12 PM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Cord]
Jokatech Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 18
Thanks Cord. I just listed those styles because in the debate I had with an MMA guy, he listed those styles in his argument as to what make up the only effective MMA styles. Those were his words.

I must say that BJJ is very progressive. I think I got subbed 30 times today in class. My wrestling helped, but it is crucial to build an arsenal of offensive moves.
_________________________
I never believed in the classical retreat, like the fake never knew technique.

Top
#430426 - 10/11/10 09:41 PM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Jokatech]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
I think a fundamental issue is the difficulty in re-creating an authentic fight experience in the studio. Some arts go to great lengths to make the training as close to a battle or fight scenario as possible, but there are always points of stoppage, padding on the body, blunting of the weaponry. At most it is ritualized combat. And yet even the most advanced Delta-force level soldier faces these same limits in training. It takes years to achieve the advanced levels of combat training in the military, and it is a constant learning process for them as well.
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

Top
#430430 - 10/12/10 01:05 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Kathryn]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Kathryn-trust me, in terms of hand to hand combat training, the military doesn't have anything you don't have. It's ok but nothing special. As for the other stuff, don't worry about it, it doesn't apply to civilians at all really (like building assaults and convoy operations, things like that).

It's true that you can never fully achieve "reality" in training. But the most important aspects of real fighting that need replicating are free movement (which is no problem) and decent amounts of contact which is also possible with about 150 bucks of gear. It's fairly easy to figure out the small few techniques or positions that sport oriented arts have that leave you open to dirty tactics and avoid them. I can practice BJJ without pulling guard immediately (which is stupid in a real fight).

An instructor who has been in a few serious street fights is a plus too.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#430432 - 10/12/10 02:47 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Kathryn]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Kathryn, I can see your point, but the principle thing that a class in any art must address for it to be functional, is to familiarise you with application of techniques against an oponent who does not want you to succeed. If training drills are always compliant, then you have no way of knowing if the techniques stand a chance of working for you when the target isnt playing along in the name of learning.

This does not mean it has to be 100% balls-to-the-wall full contact, it just has to be realistic in intent- both yours, and your oponents, and there has to be freedom for 'unscripted' responses to various methods of attack and defence in a free flowing environment.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#430435 - 10/12/10 09:17 PM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Cord]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
The way I view it, in the studio training your opponent could be considered "compliant", as Cord points out. But in a real-world fight, your opponent could be considered "unsuspecting". If you aren't advertising, they have no reason to know what is coming. The JJ move that makes your opponent do a flip in the studio will most likely break a real opponent's arm, because they aren't expecting the move and don't know how to fall properly. This is the main reason that I don't personally worry about real-world applications, this element of surprise.
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

Top
#430438 - 10/12/10 10:34 PM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Kathryn]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
That's why I love the thai clinch with knees, most people have never experienced it, don't expect it, and don't have a clue what to do about it.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#430444 - 10/13/10 12:49 PM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Stormdragon]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
I've definitely experienced martial arts training for fairly unrealistic scenarios, and with compliant partners, but I've been surprised even in fairly decent TMA classes how little some instructors are aware of basic boxing technique, for example.

For a short time I used to attend a TMA class [Chinese, but the style isn't particularly relevant] which was, in many ways, a really good class. Drills were done with a fair bit of intensity, there was sparring, advice on stretching, technique etc was all pretty good. However, whenever we did work on 'what to do against a hook' or 'what to do against a straight right', that sort of thing, the techniques they were working against were never really that much like a boxer would do. I'd only done a few months of boxing at the time, but the hooks I threw were nothing like the hooks they drilled against. I'd stand about 2ft closer, for a start. And then they'd move to 'the correct distance'. And I'd step in.

"No, throw the hook from the right range"
"This is the right range"

there were similar issues with drills against straight punches, where the punches they practiced against were much slower, and brought back much slower than would be the norm.

It seemed an odd problem, as, when drilling against techniques from the same art, they were actually pretty realistic, and trained without compliant partners, with a decent level of speed and contact, and so on. In many ways it was a good class, but with an odd blind spot about what people trained in 'western'/'sporting' styles actually do.

Top
#430445 - 10/13/10 08:12 PM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: matt_mcg]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
That's why you always start off working against the jab. If you can defend or counter against the jab then your good. The jab is the fastest attack you will get. It's all about progressive resistance in the training. Start with one attack then throw in others.

I bet you found it completely frustrating when they wouldn't accept an attack from a boxers range. I guess they wanted you to stay in kicking range that way they receive an e-mail that a right cross is coming their way, now they know how to respond appropriately.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#430449 - 10/14/10 12:15 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: TeK9]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
It seems like everyone wants to make every striking technique fit their prefered range. I see people often try to use punches from kicking range (a mistake I'm still trying to break) and use kicks at punching range or even use hooks at jab and cross range. Big mistake. Learning to control the different ranges and what works and what range is crucial in fighting. Unfortunetly these tendencies find their way into accepted doctrine sometimes.
This is partly the problem with traditional footwork, it's hard to control range with big, flat footed steps.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga